Mopping wax

[J LAD]

Chris:
1. I would stick to applying and bufffing off wax by hand only. You will only end up with holograms and hazing all over the car if you use your DA, trust me i speak from experience.
2. The paint thickness on most car panels is at its lowest at the edges and on any " swage / seam line ", thats why its best to mask off or protect these areas.
3. Know your paint, ie does it have a clear coat / lacquer, or is it simply a single stage paint. Buy a digital paint thickness gauge, this will tell you what you have to play with with regards to paint correction.
4. Be realistic - you will get good results with a DA polisher, but do not expect to achieve perfection if the paint has deep scratches etc.
5. Most DA polishers have a standard orbit size, but usually a large orbit will be used for larger diameter pads, used on large flat areas that need heavy compounding to remove lots of defects, thus you will need more power for a larger orbit. The Rupes and Flex DA have lots of power so are ideal for this.
6. Test an area first by hand, you need to know if the paint is hard or soft. Japanese cars paint is usually soft and easily removed, so be carefull.
7. Heat build up is a by product of machine polishing so keep checking the surface temp of the panel when polishing, if you cannot safely leave your hand on the paint after polishing then its getting too hot and your probably staying in one area too long.
8. Keep the pad moist and avoid over loading the pad with polish. It will only clog and not operate as it should. Around 3 equal spaced drops of polish on the pad around the size of a pea is plenty.

 

[MarkII]

Any advice about the orbit length?

The orbit size, represents the 'throw' of the orbit, or to look at it another way the area (if you imagine underneath the polisher if it were stationary) that the pad will be oscillating over when you are polishing.

A larger orbit has no impact on cutting power, as this is influenced by motor power (in Watts), the type of pad you use (the surface of the pad) and how coarse the polish you use is - a larger orbit just means you're polishing a larger area at a time.

Most modern polishes start off with large particles to create a greater cutting action at the start and then break down to small particles as you work them, refining the finish as you go (so it's simply a case of deciding how coarse you NEED the polish to be to begin with, based on whether you're dealing with major marring or light swirls - always remembering the rules I mentioned previously).

To cover a range of polishing jobs and the surface areas you might need to polish on a car, something like the DAS 6 which is 500W and has an 8mm orbit would be ideal - with a 5 inch backing plate and a range of pads/couple of polishes, as mentioned previously. You don't really need to spend any more on a polishing machine and can save your money or spend it on sealant or wax.

J LAD makes a number of good points, in particular about heat build-up, keeping the pad moist and being realistic - sometimes you have to take the view that whilst you can improve a scratch or make it less visible you're never going to polish it out without compromising the lacquer/paint.

HTH

 

[ChrisEdu]

Thanks guys. My paintwork has a few deeper marks and chips, which I wouldn't dream of tackling, but does have the usual fine swirl marks, which I think could be dealt with successfully.

Ultimately, I just want to get it as nice as I can reasonably do and end-up with a really deep, lustrous finish with that wow factor. Admittedly, I had hoped mopping could be used to buff the wax, as with my health issues, that half killed me the other day!

In terms of what to use after polishing, what do you suggest? Is it best to layer on several coats of wax, like Collinite 915, or are other products preferable, e.g. sealants (which I know nothing about)?

Also, sorry, any advice about claying the bodywork? Any recommendations for products, techniques, etc...?

 

[MarkII]

Thanks guys. My paintwork has a few deeper marks and chips, which I wouldn't dream of tackling, but does have the usual fine swirl marks, which I think could be dealt with successfully.

Ultimately, I just want to get it as nice as I can reasonably do and end-up with a really deep, lustrous finish with that wow factor. Admittedly, I had hoped mopping could be used to buff the wax, as with my health issues, that half killed me the other day!

In terms of what to use after polishing, what do you suggest? Is it best to layer on several coats of wax, like Collinite 915, or are other products preferable, e.g. sealants (which I know nothing about)?

Also, sorry, any advice about claying the bodywork? Any recommendations for products, techniques, etc...?

You should be able to get what you're after Chris but if your health is an issue then (and I know this might sound strange after all the advice) why not pay someone else to undertake the polishing work?

I'd still be polishing and waxing my own cars - which I was always a pleasure not a chore but my health isn't up to it now (much to my frustration and the concern of my family).

With regards to clay etc - I've mostly used Meguiars or Sonus clay bars, with a spritz of Quick Detailer (or you can use a mild car shampoo mix - provided you are going to rinse off well prior to any further work).

Start on the roof, spritz QD or shampoo/water mix from a spray bottle onto a 2x2ft area and gentle glide the clay bar back and forth in the palm of your hand over the area, wipe off with a microfibre or waffle towel and run your hand over feeling for any contaminants still stuck in the paint, when you can run your hand over and it feels smooth as glass you can move on.

Fold the clay bar (like chewing gum) every so often (to keep any contaminants away from the paint). Gradually work each panel, working downwards with the same technique. If you drop the clay bar, throw it and get a new one!!

When you are done claying every panel should feel silky smooth and you are ready to move on, cleanse off any wax residue and proceed to polishing.

Final Coat
As far as waxing goes, ask ten people and you'll get 10 different answers - there's no right or wrong, only what you like and what suits your car care regime. The general view is that sealants offer more long-lasting protection but can look too 'bright' and lack depth, wax (usually Carnuba) doesn't last so well but usually looks warmer and deeper (depending on colour of the car).

Frankly, my approach to waxing has changed over the years, reflecting both the change in paint systems and my tastes/health, so whilst I used to use a very labour intensive Glaze/Carnauba wax combo, I wouldn't do that on an 'everyday' car now - instead (for anyone wanting to look after their own car easily and cheaply) I would suggest following polishing with CarLack68 Nano (an Acrylic sealant) - left to settle for 24hrs, with two coats of Pinnacle Souveran Past Wax - left 24 hours apart.

This approach means you get a good base protection against contamination (which should last 8-12mths) with a top-coat of wax for hydrophobicity (water beading) and a warmer shine (that will last about 2mths).

When water stops beading (probably 2 months) just top up with the Souveran wax after your wash routine and then once a year clean off the wax, clay and re-do the CarLack/Souveran combo again.

Mark

 

[flango]

Top advice from Mark. I too have moved to acrylic sealant for my daily driver, Sonax followed by Sonax high carnuba wax. On the CLK I use poor boys black hole glaze first as it's older paint.

 

[ChrisEdu]

Thanks - that makes sense. I have considered paying to get my car detailed professionally, but part of me just thinks that, knowing my luck, it would get bashed or chipped or whatever straight after and so feel like money down the drain. Whereas, if I was equipped to get a decent finish myself, then it's not quite so bad, plus I can get brownie points by doing the wife's car too!

 

[J LAD]

Chris-- I dont want to put you off here, but machine polishing is hard work, especially on the legs.
Its not too bad with a DA as they are much lighter than a rotary polisher, but you do have to apply a bit more pressure when using a DA.
Best to split the car into panels, one day just do the bonnet for example, plus you wont get bored.
Take your time, dont rush the first stages of paint decontamination, ie claying the paint, as any crap left in the paint will soon become apparent when you start polishing.
Make sure you cover the rest of the car with a simple plastic dust sheet when polishing, as polish splatter is a cow to get off when dry, and it will mark black trim too.
Get a soft kneeling pad, to save the knees when doing lower panels too.
Waxes are basically split into 2 types, synthetic / acrylic waxes and natural carnauba waxes.
Both will do a fine job of adding protection to the paint and adding depth and gloss.
Rule of thumb - you can put natural waxes on top of synthetic waxes but not vice-versa.
Less is more - no amount of wax will make your cars paint shine more, it may enhance it true, but its the polishing and removal of every paint defect that does the real work for a deep deep gloss finish.

 

[ChrisEdu]

I was thinking that it would take me days to do a decent job, if not a week or more. I am pretty used to using powerful random orbit sanders, as I own a couple of Festool Rotex sanders, which can be a beast to use if not used to that kind of thing.

I'm fairly happy to see it almost as a project, and so prepared to take time. Would there be any issue with potentially only getting a panel or two done and then having to leave it a few weeks? Obviously, I appreciate there'd be a couple of shiny panels, but wondered if there were any issues if one then had to wash the car again?

Oh, I have some gel knee pads for tiling.

 

[ChrisEdu]

Are there any thickness measures less than several hundred £?

If I took my car to an AD, do you think they'd run a gauge over the car for me?

 

[MarkII]

Wow Chris,

A simple question - but a 'can of worms' subject.....

Simple answer is: Yes, there are cheap PTGs.

Problem is: Should you buy one and would you want to rely on it when a mistake could cost you many £100s/1,000s to rectify to an original standard (and I'm not talking about a certain company promising the 'removal of potato based paint issues' C*******y)

1) Cheap PTGs only measure 'Total Paint Thickness' - so on a car with a Clearcoat Laquer, Colour Base and Primer over metal, you would only know the total of the finishes combined and wouldn't be able to work out how much Clear you might have cut through (go too low polishing clear and you will be removing the protection the Clearcoat offers the paint underneath, from UV etc). More expensive units allow you to read the layers (most of the time - though precise layer accuracy can be a bit off).

2) Really cheap PTGs tend to be less accurate and have large graduations – they might be +/-10 microns, where a dearer one may be +/-2 microns. Sounds like nothing doesn't it but if you can't rely on the accuracy of your test method how can you know where you are??

3) Cheap PTGs don't tend to measure over anything other than steel - and to reduce weight/offer pedestrian safety many cars now use aluminium bonnets, plastic wings etc.

I guess in your situation, if you're only going to be working on your own car, only polishing maybe once/twice a year, know the history of your car and whether you've had any smart repairs or panel work (that might require greater care), use the 'Least Aggressive Polish...' rule I mentioned previously then:

You might be OK with a basic gauge that just gives you total paint thickness. If so, I’d suggest this Nicety PTG from Polished Bliss:

OR

You could try contacting a local detailer and ask nicely if you could hire them and their PTG when you have need - if they recognise you're only doing it for yourself and are willing to sub them a bit for time/fuel and a pint, they might be willing – most detailers are enthusiasts but every one has to make a living….

A couple of footnotes:
1) You may need to take 10 – 20 readings per panel to get a range and understand how the thickness of the finish varies. Like most things in life, a good result often comes from spending 2/3rds of your time on preparation.
2) Whilst not a guarantee, you may be able to get a VERY ROUGH idea of what clearcoat you have to play with on your car by taking a reading from under the bonnet (which isn’t lacquered) and comparing this to the top of the bonnet but like I said, that's VERY ROUGH.
3) Thankfully Mercedes paint is pretty hard, so you'd have to be working harder to burn your way through than on something like a Nissan

To understand the layers you are working with and various types of damage, this is a good visual:





Hope that helps!


Mark

 

[ChrisEdu]

Cheers, Mark.

So, if one was to invest in a PTG, which would you recommend?

That visual looks very similar to what I saw in that other guide, so at least I've learnt something about the marks!

Fortunately, bar a few chips, pretty all I have to contend with is swirls, so they should be pretty shallow in the clear coat.

I'd have to say, I'm surprised to hear Mercedes paint being called tough, as my old 210 seemed to mark as soon as you looked at it! Hopefully, my 211 will prove a bit more hard-wearing.

 

[MarkII]

Hi Chris,

PTG: There's a link in the post.

Paint Hardness: Hardness and durability are not the same and depend upon the nature of the damage.

A 'Hard' paint may only marr slightly when subjected to a scratch but the same paint might chip easily when hit by a flying stone. Different manufacturers have a different take on what they believe is best, so one will go with a hard paint where another will go with a medium or soft paint - the latter reacts better to stone chips but less so to scratches.

Hope that makes sense

 

[ChrisEdu]

Opps! Missed the link!

Looking at that and the Defelsko, they both seem to have a tolerance of +/-2%, so I'm wondering what the difference is that makes one £350 more than the other?!

 

[MarkII]

Opps! Missed the link!

Looking at that and the Defelsko, they both seem to have a tolerance of +/-2%, so I'm wondering what the difference is that makes one £350 more than the other?!

In a nutshell, DeFelsko is the choice of the 'Professional' and their range of testers are designed and priced accordingly - the PosiTest DFT is the 'Professional' version of something like the Nicety and the price difference is down to technology, durability in use (waterproof case etc) and the fact that the DeFelsko units are made in the U.S as opposed to China.