Moron in a Silver Mondeo - Road Rage

[developer]

I'd consider calling Police- which might also help your case if the other driver makes a malicious report.

I'd avoid a physical confrontation regardless of how confident I felt- if someone's really lost it, then even the best outcome is unlikely to be pleasant or worthwhile. There are too many ways that a showdown could end unexpectedly badly for either protagonist.

Kenneth Noye may have offspring - it's not worth it.

 

[BTB 500]

Not sure I subscribe to that - so bigger discs and tyres and six pistons will not provide any more braking power than standard Pug 206 brakes? I accept the Merc is heavier. Mercedes are missing a money-saving trick here....

The point is that in a one-off emergency stop your car will stop in exactly the same distance with trick brakes as with stock ones. It's purely a function of the weight of the car and the amount of grip the tyres have - the standard brakes have more than enough power to lock the wheels up. Additional clamping force gives no benefit at all, and thinking that it does may give a false sense of security.

I've no idea whether a C63 would stop quicker than a Pug 206 or not - different weight, tyres, and suspension. But as above the type of brakes the C63 had would make no difference to the outcome.

As I said originally, repeated heavy braking (track driving etc.) is a different scenario, and an uprated brake system - if done properly - can have advantages in terms of resisting fade etc. People will also pay for parts/mods that look good, even if they make no real practical difference. I include myself in that category, having spent a small fortune on wheels and exhaust for my car!

For the record I have nothing whatsoever against C63s or their drivers!

I do hate people who drive like nobs on motorways - tailgating and undertaking at speed - though

 

[BTB 500]

I'd avoid a physical confrontation regardless of how confident I felt- if someone's really lost it, then even the best outcome is unlikely to be pleasant or worthwhile. There are too many ways that a showdown could end unexpectedly badly for either protagonist.

Absolutely. It's just not worth it.

 

[Scott_F]

Kenneth Noye may have offspring - it's not worth it.

Rumours still persist that there was more to that case than a random roadrage incident.

 

[m1br]

Rumours still persist that there was more to that case than a random roadrage incident.

Maybe.
But would you want to meet then next one?
Kenneth Noye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aitch55]

I've no idea whether a C63 would stop quicker than a Pug 206 or not - different weight, tyres, and suspension. But as above the type of brakes the C63 had would make no difference to the outcome.

You may find this interesting:

Jeremy Clarkson - on Stopping Distances! - YouTube

 

[jay1983]

Had a similar incident takin my mums micra for an mot. Idiot typical bully boy givin out the abuse didn't think there would be 2 handy blokes in a little 12 year old micra. When we stopped my dad got out and threatened him to give him a taste of his own medicine. Guy sat there ashen faced and refused to get out.
We continued on our merry way, and half way through mot test police came in and arrested my dad! The guy had followed us to the mot station and phoned the police accusing my dad of threatening behaviour.
On a flip side the micra passed the mot and my dad got away with a caution.

 

[mct_cars]

I'd consider calling Police- which might also help your case if the other driver makes a malicious report.

I'd avoid a physical confrontation regardless of how confident I felt- if someone's really lost it, then even the best outcome is unlikely to be pleasant or worthwhile. There are too many ways that a showdown could end unexpectedly badly for either protagonist.

Completely agree. I spent the time trying to lose him rather than corner him. I have a wife and two kids and lots to live for!

I do a lot of driving and this sort of instance is thankfully rare. I've been considering buying a dash cam for a while - this has made up my mind. If I'd had one, I would've reported him and given the police the footage of him driving like a Neanderthal.

 

[Ierton]

The point is that in a one-off emergency stop your car will stop in exactly the same distance with trick brakes as with stock ones. It's purely a function of the weight of the car and the amount of grip the tyres have - the standard brakes have more than enough power to lock the wheels up. Additional clamping force gives no benefit at all, and thinking that it does may give a false sense of security.

I've no idea whether a C63 would stop quicker than a Pug 206 or not - different weight, tyres, and suspension. But as above the type of brakes the C63 had would make no difference to the outcome.

As I said originally, repeated heavy braking (track driving etc.) is a different scenario, and an uprated brake system - if done properly - can have advantages in terms of resisting fade etc. People will also pay for parts/mods that look good, even if they make no real practical difference. I include myself in that category, having spent a small fortune on wheels and exhaust for my car!

For the record I have nothing whatsoever against C63s or their drivers!

I do hate people who drive like nobs on motorways - tailgating and undertaking at speed - though

That only holds for brakes without ABS. If you can get to and maintain the point of peak retardation faster you will stop quicker. Larger brakes whilst having a higher moment of inertia can provide this.

 

[Dieselman]

You may find this interesting:

Jeremy Clarkson - on Stopping Distances! - YouTube

The Peugeot stops quicker than a Porsche 911.

 

[Dieselman]

That only holds for brakes without ABS. If you can get to and maintain the point of peak retardation faster you will stop quicker. Larger brakes whilst having a higher moment of inertia can provide this.

How can they? If the brakes can lock the wheel the point of maximum braking has been passed.

For a car to stop quickly it needs brakes that can pass the point of locking the wheels, suspension that holds the wheels down onto the road and reduces body dive and weight transfer, reduced mass,...and last, but by no means least...decent tyres.

All cars have brakes that can pass the point of wheel locking now, the other points are variable.

 

[brigadier]

Good points. The reason heavier cars have bigger brakes is, as they are heavier (aids tyre grip) and the tires are usually wider, they can apply more braking power before locking the wheels. Doesn't mean they will stop faster than smaller, lighter cars. Good tyres are most critical imho.

 

[balge]

That only holds for brakes without ABS. If you can get to and maintain the point of peak retardation faster you will stop quicker. Larger brakes whilst having a higher moment of inertia can provide this.

True, that's why they used to teach 'cadence braking' to pursuit drivers in the days before ABS.
Thats the whole point of ABS, to hold the tyre at the most effective braking rate for the tyre for as long as possible without actually locking up
The quicker your brakes can slow the tyre down to that rate the 'better' they are - then it's up to the ABS to maintain it by varying the fluid pressure faster and more accurately than a Mk 1 boot...

 

[Dieselman]

it is a mistake to think ABS reduces stopping distances as it keeps releasing the brake to allow the wheel to spin.

The quickest stopping will be by the tyre being held just on the edge of losing grip. I have always thought ABS created longer stopping distances and now I have two identical cars, one with, one without ABS, I can definitely feel it.
the one with ABS stops OK, the one without is sharp as a razor.

ABS only has one function. To allow control and steerage due to not locking the wheels.


But since you will need to argue, here is a simulation with figures given.


[YOUTUBE]/V7ZVFSa-zLw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Ierton]

That's a moot point given all cars now have ABS.

 

[Aitch55]

That's a moot point given all cars now have ABS.

You can still cadence brake with ABS.

 

[Dieselman]

You can still cadence brake with ABS.

Why would you want to?

 

[gunning]

it is a mistake to think ABS reduces stopping distances as it keeps releasing the brake to allow the wheel to spin.

The quickest stopping will be by the tyre being held just on the edge of losing grip. I have always thought ABS created longer stopping distances and now I have two identical cars, one with, one without ABS, I can definitely feel it.
the one with ABS stops OK, the one without is sharp as a razor.

ABS only has one function. To allow control and steerage due to not locking the wheels.


But since you will need to argue, here is a simulation with figures given.


[YOUTUBE]/V7ZVFSa-zLw[/YOUTUBE]

So through all of your quite frankly annoying arguing, what your trying to say is in the 70mph to 0mph stopping test a 206 pug would perform the same as C63 AMG brakes. Please actually read what you're writing because i've never heard such rubbish. With all your effort of trying to win an argument that clearly stated by atleast 2 people within the thread to leave it you feel the need to carry on. Stop turning every thread into arguments

 

[Dieselman]

That's a moot point given all cars now have ABS.

It wasn't me brought ABS up (to confuse the issue), but given that all cars have it, no car can use the brakes to actually lock the wheel anymore, so additional braking power becomes even more meaningless.

Suspension, vehicle mass and tyre friction are what makes a car stop well, which is why the Peugeot 106 out-brakes the Porsche 911.

Due to adding additional rotating mass (as well as vehicle mass), larger, more powerful brakes make cars stop slower...but don't let science get in the way of a good story about why some people need bigger brakes...


...other than to raise the bar on the pub loo wall...

 

[Dieselman]

So through all of your quite frankly annoying arguing, what your trying to say is in the 70mph to 0mph stopping test a 206 pug would perform the same as C63 AMG brakes. Please actually read what you're writing because i've never heard such rubbish. With all your effort of trying to win an argument that clearly stated by atleast 2 people within the thread to leave it you feel the need to carry on. Stop turning every thread into arguments

Uh.

That was your C63 chummy, not me.

The TG test clearly showed the Pug 106 out-braked the Porsche 911 by some margin. (31m to be exact)
Which part of that is so difficult for you to understand?