MPG, costs per month.

[JHS]

Most people buy cheap and nasty ICE’s purely on cost of ownership.

View attachment 149930

View attachment 149929

MY ICE IS NOT CHEAP OR NASTY.
Well not if you include maintenance, insurance and dealer labour charges that is.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Exactly, so that’s more than 50% of uk households who don’t have a problem with charging overnight, so why do you think it’s a problem for them ?

Any EV can do motorway speeds. Look around you. But you can’t drive 300 miles to Birmingham and back at 70mph. I averaged 50mph on my trip which is why I know I could have done the journey in an EV - at a third of the cost - or in an EV with a short 15 minute top up. I broke my journey, three times: at the destination, where there were chargers, and twice of the motorway where there were empty chargers

A quick google tells me that over 80% of ALL Ev charging is done at home.....which also tels me that people who cant charge at home are simply not buying EVs.

According to this the number of people able to charge at home on their drive is a fair bit higher than 50%....somewhere around 66% (two thirds).

A third of UK homeowners don’t have a driveway or garage to

Electric car drivers face a postcode lottery on public charging as the lack of ‘on-street’ infrastructure threatens to pull the plug on the uptake o

www.transportxtra.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Not sure why my question was perceived as anti EV. The question was in the spirit of 'what EV do you have as it sounds ideal for me ?! '

Yes of course EVs can do motorway speed and more, but apart from the SE where you can't get above 40 mph very often the rest of the country goes at 70-85 on motorways and you can't do that for long in an EV... That's presumably why on long trips to the SW from the SE I see so many doing 55-65 (or those drivers hate cars and driving, which I'm sure you'll agree is a core EV demographic: see all VW ID owners for evidence Okey that's an incendiary joke, I don't hate EVs!)

I won't be at my non-driveway property for ever so an EV or hybrid may be on the cards by 2030 but obviously it will be a heavily depreciated luxo barge .

“Anti-EV?” Nah, I’m just railing about dumb challenges to the concept.

“Who would give up newspapers, mags, CDs or DVD’s? They’ll never replace that grand a year I spend on them….”

“Why would anyone give up a landline for an expensive mobile phone that costs a fortune and needs charging?”

“Why would my 68 year old sister plug her car into a three pin socket when she she can get a bloke to put diesel into her car, at three times the cost?”

It’s not the EV concept that’s nonsense, it’s the quality of the first generation product. But it is only the first generation product

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

MY ICE IS NOT CHEAP OR NASTY.
Well not if you include maintenance, insurance and dealer labour charges that is.

Certainly Sir !!

I was talking about most of those motors in Britain’s Top Ten.

But agreed, EVs are getting visibly cheaper to run and maintain each year.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

A quick google tells me that over 80% of ALL Ev charging is done at home.....which also tels me that people who cant charge at home are simply not buying EVs.

According to this the number of people able to charge at home on their drive is a fair bit higher than 50%....somewhere around 66% (two thirds).

A third of UK homeowners don’t have a driveway or garage to

Electric car drivers face a postcode lottery on public charging as the lack of ‘on-street’ infrastructure threatens to pull the plug on the uptake o

www.transportxtra.com

For sure, but think about those stats a moment.

Of course only 80% of charging is done at home. It’s that LOW because they’re in the hands of salaried wage slaves using them to travel on busyness, and in the hands of them there mega wealthy city centre dwellers without driveways. As ownership expands, more charging will be done on driveways and kerbsides.

It’s closer to 50% of households, not homeowners, because not everyone owns a home, and because a chunk of homeowners don’t want to own cars. We’re deliberately moving beyond “peak car.”

But the broad point remains: convert those who can easily convert, and focus on the real issues, not the inability to drive to drive 300 miles at a steady 70mph in a country where that became impossible last century. And don't whine about city cars targeted and built for short range local use, being no good for trips to Scotland or touring the Alps. Half the country's motors don't travel far from home

 

[ALFAitalia]

Yep...agreed.
I make it clear that I wont have an EV.....but if I did I cant see any issues with running, charging or using....although buying a decent one would be a financial stretch....I wont PCP.
I'm probably about the perfect EV owner, three (four at a push) car drive, my leccy meter is in the house integrated bin store on my drive so making for a really simple charge point install, my wife does about 10 to 15 miles a day in her petrol A Class....I do none in the week (company vehicles) and about a 20 to 30 miles a day average at the weekend (when I'm not working). I probably drive over 250 miles in one stint in my own car no more than two or three times a year (every week in the company truck!). I recon I would need to charge up away from home a handful of times per year................and I think most people could use an EV pretty easily if they are really honest.....its just that they are anti EV and finding any excuse why people should not use them......its not as if anything is stopping them (or me) using ICE cars for the foreseeable future.....you just wont be able to buy new ones after 2035....I'll be 68 then so If I buy a late ICE car then and perhaps one more a few years on as a used car it should last me out!!

 

[philnewmerc]

My interpretation when listening to EV afficiados:
I think, as forum for people who like cars and driving (particularly MB ones), we should all accept that cars have not been able to exceed 40 mph anywhere in the UK since about at least 1999, petrol V8s are vulgar, diesel 4 cylinders are worse than Covid, and in an age when all we want to do is travel 2 miles to the shops this should be done in a 2.5 ton metal box and longer trips can be done at the UK effective maximum speed of 55 mph tailgating lorries to improve mi/kWh. This is my EV dream: I must look at the exciting VW ID4 and see if they've managed to (inexplicitly) make it even more dull to suit my loathing of cars, speed and car culture generally.

My interpretation when listening to rather plain (imho) ice car aficionados:
How on earth can I use an EV when I only have space for 2 cars on my drive? The 3rd car is no doubt government-mandated by our totalitarian dictatorship to be a EV ticking time bomb soon and as I refuse to plug in at night I will be paying 50 pounds per kWh at the local petrol station. Outrageous they force me to not charge at home due to my perfectly reasonable stubbornness to fork out 300 quid on a charger. And how can I charge it en route to Rome - a trip I do twice per week towing a horse box - when I usually only ever stop to empty my travel urine bag once every 12 hours? This is an EV nightmare: Give me the romantic knocking noise and soot of my canal boat engined ice car any day of the week.

 

[Smiley]

So, looking at the month of November, if you’d been running an EV, how often would YOU have needed to use a public charger network away from home?

I wouldn’t have needed to, and would have started every day with a “full range,” as would all of my neighbours, and close friends. I did one 300 mile return journey to Birmingham which “might” have been close to needing 15 minute top up, but which could easily have been done, as it was mainly motorway, obviously.

somewhat unusually, once. It is normally never so an unusual occurence. True to form the first charger, Instavolt normally very good, would not start the charge. Second charger worked fine. The infrastructure is pretty cr*p if you have to charge away from home. Unless you have a Tesla, and one of those is a very long way down my want list, despite the charging points being excellent.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Will it route you to chargers that are under cover to protect you from the elements (99% of petrol stations are under cover)? Genuine question, no EV hate here, just EV caution

It takes much longer to fill a tank with a petrol or diesel than it does to plug in an EV, so much less of an issue.

Unless it’s a light summer shower, the height of a fuel filling station canopy means that you can still get wet under cover.

 

[clk320x]

It takes much longer to fill a tank with a petrol or diesel than it does to plug in an EV, so much less of an issue.

Unless it’s a light summer shower, the height of a fuel filling station canopy means that you can still get wet under cover.

Good point, I think I’m literally out the car, plugged in and sat down in 10 seconds or less. Then again, non-Tesla chargers need you to tap your card etc so maybe a bit longer if not using the Tesla network?

It does seem like I’m blowing the Tesla trumpet but as EVs go it’s just so far ahead and seamless IMO. Just plug in and go, no faff, no messing around.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I agree about their tech....it's just a pity they are all so pig ugly (S model excepted...just!) ....but that seems to be the case with most bespoke EV models......and unfortunately Mercedes lead the way in ugly EVs. Not one of them has any old school Mercedes style..... They just look like primary school kids car doodles that have been left in front of the fire too long and started to melt!

 

[clk320x]

I agree about their tech....it's just a pity they are all so pig ugly (S model excepted...just!) ....but that seems to be the case with most bespoke EV models......and unfortunately Mercedes lead the way in ugly EVs. Not one of them has any old school Mercedes style..... They just look like primary school kids car doodles that have been left in front of the fire too long and started to melt!

I think the Model S is an absolute beauty. (maybe a bit biased lol )

Also a fan of the Model X (actually in the process of looking to buy one!)

 

[Smiley]

The model Y looks OK but the M3 looks like it was designed by the leader of the dull men's club and the S is not far behind. And then the everything on an oversized ipad screen is just awful. Then there is the control of parts supply and astronomical parts and repair pricing by Tesla which is bad enough on it's own but now it is feeding through to insurance problems and likely a contributor to steep depreciation curves. The image problems caused by the Tesla fanboys vs the Tesla haters (I'm not in that category) and Musk himself are the added disincentives....it's fairly unlikely I will ever own a Tesla. On the plus side, the charging network is genius and look forward to accessing it on our non Tesla EVs.

 

[clk320x]

The model Y looks OK but the M3 looks like it was designed by the leader of the dull men's club and the S is not far behind. And then the everything on an oversized ipad screen is just awful. Then there is the control of parts supply and astronomical parts and repair pricing by Tesla which is bad enough on it's own but now it is feeding through to insurance problems and likely a contributor to steep depreciation curves. The image problems caused by the Tesla fanboys vs the Tesla haters (I'm not in that category) and Musk himself are the added disincentives....it's fairly unlikely I will ever own a Tesla. On the plus side, the charging network is genius and look forward to accessing it on our non Tesla EVs.

Good luck to you. Each to their own.

Which EV do you own?

 

[Smiley]

Yep...agreed.
I make it clear that I wont have an EV.....but if I did I cant see any issues with running, charging or using....although buying a decent one would be a financial stretch....I wont PCP.
I'm probably about the perfect EV owner, three (four at a push) car drive, my leccy meter is in the house integrated bin store on my drive so making for a really simple charge point install, my wife does about 10 to 15 miles a day in her petrol A Class....I do none in the week (company vehicles) and about a 20 to 30 miles a day average at the weekend (when I'm not working). I probably drive over 250 miles in one stint in my own car no more than two or three times a year (every week in the company truck!). I recon I would need to charge up away from home a handful of times per year................and I think most people could use an EV pretty easily if they are really honest.....its just that they are anti EV and finding any excuse why people should not use them......its not as if anything is stopping them (or me) using ICE cars for the foreseeable future.....you just wont be able to buy new ones after 2035....I'll be 68 then so If I buy a late ICE car then and perhaps one more a few years on as a used car it should last me out!!

Indeed you would be. And for your use case the reality is that it would not even be a financial stretch. 2015/17 generation Nissan Leafs with decent batteries and real world all yr round 80 miles range are now about 5k, the next level up 3yr old low miles Hyundai Ioniq with 160 mile real world all yr range are about £13-14k or 3yr old Korean 64kwh models with 250 mile range at about £20k and with running costs (charging at home) that make an A class look expensive. One day you will make the change and wonder why you didn't check it out sooner instead of just saying they're not for me. Just for one of the cars, keep a petrol or diesel as well.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

It does seem like I’m blowing the Tesla trumpet but as EVs go it’s just so far ahead and seamless IMO. Just plug in and go, no faff, no messing around.

Like Apple did with the iPhone, Tesla realised that the product is important but what sits around it is what makes it compelling, desirable, premium (profit), and sticky (loyalty.)

For Apple that was taking control of Apps (and before that Music for iPod), as they had the foresight to know that it was the apps which would make the iPhone different to traditional mobile phones.

For Tesla that was taking control of the charging infrastructure (and battery production) as they had the foresight to know that it would be range and recharging which would set them apart from the rest.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think the Model S is an absolute beauty. (maybe a bit biased lol )

Also a fan of the Model X (actually in the process of looking to buy one!)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but deaign is margining more objective. I would say that the Model S will be considered a landmark car from a design and styling perspective in future.

It has aged well. It was launched more than 11 years ago and at the time of writing and very little changed over the years in items styling. There aren’t many cars on sale today that can claim the same.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Indeed you would be. And for your use case the reality is that it would not even be a financial stretch. 2015/17 generation Nissan Leafs with decent batteries and real world all yr round 80 miles range are now about 5k, the next level up 3yr old low miles Hyundai Ioniq with 160 mile real world all yr range are about £13-14k or 3yr old Korean 64kwh models with 250 mile range at about £20k and with running costs (charging at home) that make an A class look expensive. One day you will make the change and wonder why you didn't check it out sooner instead of just saying they're not for me. Just for one of the cars, keep a petrol or diesel as well.

I would not drive either of those tbh...EV or not. I have now owned a hatchback since i was about 20......and i am way more anti SUV than i am anti EV (which I'm not at all really). The number of cookie cutter , over weight, ugly SUVs on the road is getting out of hand. I'm surprised governments have not said something in a time where they want less carbon.

 

[SpikyMikey]

I passed a Polestar 2 on the M25 yesterday.
Looks are a very subjective thing, but I thought it was pretty smart; at least there was no Tesla 'sulking duck' front end.

 

[ALFAitalia]

They are not a bod looker....pity they went for the crossover look with a high ride height and the plastic around the arches....to my eyes at least. Its a saloon car....make it look like one!!