None MB spec fuel cleaner put in MB cars

[glojo]

Just as a point of interest when were you last given any thing for free on your service?

An interesting and difficult question to answer.

I certainly do NOT pay any extra to have my car collected

A courtesy car delivered to my door which will vary from an A-class to either an ML or E-class. This is at no extra cost and no paying any insurance premium.

My car will be returned valetted inside and out.

The actual travelling time to the dealership on a busy week day is well in excess of one hour, and of course longer at the height of the summer.

Does this fit into the criteria?

I mention it simply because if you go to the desk, book your car in, deliver it yourself, do NOT have a courtesy car and do NOT get the vehicle valetted.... the charge is the same.

We have a number of EXCELLENT independant, or specialist garage owners, but do they carry out the very much discussed and needed 'Upgrades' to a modern Mercedes-Benz?

I have NOTHING against these excellent and very knowledgeable folks who provide an excellent service.

John

 

[lofty]

The product I put in my car, is one I have used for years without a problem , and I had my last car eleven years, although thanks for the advise. The product that MB put in my car without asking! I don't now the name of Simply ref ZFSC, surely that is also and additive? albeit fuel and not engine .
lofty

 

[grober]

Shows a kind of mindset.

Sorry folks I'm with Lofty on this one 100% Servicing modern complex cars like Mercedes is all about attention to detail. The fact they cant even get your invoice right is just an indicator of the mindset of the organisation as a whole.
All Lofty was wanting in the first place was that they filled his engine with 4.5 litres of the correct grade of oil. the specified capacity of the engine as detailed by the manufacturer.
Lets just examine the potential consequences of overfilling your engine. Crankshaft frothing oil leading to premature bearing wear, oil seals put under increased pressure leading to an expensive pool of oil on your clean garage floor, oil vapour fouling your engine breather/emissionsystem, premature poisoning of your catalytic converter etc etc. Its not really just about the price of 0.5 litre of oil. All because of a lack of attention to detail which costs nothing , but does require the people involved to THINK about what they are doing. Lets get this straight, overcharging customers for services or materials they dont receive is DISHONEST no matter how slick an organisation dresses it up. The fact many other organisations indulge in this type of activity nowadays is no excuse in my book.
edit
John,
I have to acknowledge that there are sometimed uncharged benefits such as car valeting, car pickup and courtesy cars but just try getting one without booking weeks in advance. The last time I used a courtesy car they wanted a temporary transfer of insurance. If everyone availed themselves of this facility I doubt they could cope. Personally I prefer transparency to "hidden" benefits or charges since you know exactly where you stand and avoids any misunderstanding.

 

[lofty]

John I take your point entirely, If I go to my local indi mercedes garage they will charge me appprox £100 lesss than MB for the same service. But they won't valet the car and I don't get a car provided but they will collect & return the car in their price. That makes it a jolly expensive wash & brush up as for upgrades I have yet to hear of a recall or upgrade on the 'A' Class although there are many things such as rusting springs , steering, drop links, which MB should have sorted out, I have heard of the odd owner receiving a telephone call asking that his car be taken to a brranch but nothing public, that would never do!.
lofty

 

[lofty]

lofty

graham C230k I just worked it out and bearing in mind the oil was sold in 5 seperate litres,at least that's the way it was charged, by my asking for 4 in stead of 5 I saved the garage 20% in time spent putting in the oil!

Dieselman I have attached the address of the supplier of the engine oil additive thought you might like to tell them what you advised me to do ! If there is a geniune problem then they should not be selling it. After all its an American company, surely we can trust what they say to be correct?
http://www.greasedlightning.com
lofty

 

[glojo]

I have yet to hear of a recall or upgrade on the 'A' Class although there are many things such as rusting springs

Hi Lofty
I cannot comment on the very latest A-class and have no idea if their systems can be 'upgraded'

I totally agree about older vehicles being serviced by independants, I have no issues with that at all and they will usually charge less than the main dealer.

I do of course disagree about your remark,

"That makes it a jolly expensive wash & brush up"

You are refering to the valetting inside and out, plus of course the free collection delivery and of course the E-class courtesy car with free insurance" The collection and delivery aspect will involve a very minimum of two hours travelling\labour.

What would be the cost of hiring an E-class for the day with unlimited mileage and insurance cover, plus of course your 'wash and brush up'

I will sight one member who has had problems with their COMAND which hopefully is rectified FREE of charge simply by going to the main dealer.

Take this self same problem to an independant and I dread to think what they would do in an attempt to resolve the problem. We must pay for their diagnostic time, and time is always money. COMAND is a technical specialist item that might create problems to the best independant, but if they do not have the regular upgrades being issued by Mercedes-Benz then they might simply have to replace the unit???? (Mega, mega expensive) I am really asking a question here and NOT saying they could not resolve the issue.

I will as usual just throw in my usual two penarth about the break in the Mobilio warranty, I have read some really nice posts where owners of a 1997 vehicle with a full MBSH have had rust repairs. Likewise I have read about a few members who were extremely lucky to get repairs without a full history, but the last example is unfortunately getting less common. We must all make the decision that suits us.

I am NOT knocking independepants, or the folks that use them. I think for the older vehicle they are perhaps the better choice especially if they employ some of the very knowledgeable folks that contribute to this forum.

John

 

[lofty]

lofty

yep agree, point taken, but if I was that intersted in driving an E class I'd buy one! I'could afford and New E but I'm not paying for that extra oil
Used wisely the indi is good value, however when it comes to large item
replacement like my MAFS/ECU then I went back to the MB branch only because if I have problems again within the warantee period there should be less hassle to get it fixed than there would be with the indi. so you just have to pick and choose.
Obviously having a car whilst yours is being serviced is more importaint if your of working age I'm retired so I don't worry about the car half the time. although of course you do need to get back home, if it's not picked up and dropped off. :bannana:

 

[Rory]

The labour charges the dealers charge is so much that the cost of the odd half litre of oil and bottle of screenwash pales into significance. I'd not worry about it, but that's me.

To me, it's precisely because the labour charge is so high that I object to paying extra for stuff that is a compete scam, like spraylube and environmental charges.
I don't mind so much paying the MB hourly rate if they didn't then try to screw an extra few pounds out of you. It just makes the whole organisation look bad, in my opinion.

Having said that, mine had absolutely no problem with me taking in my own oil, and that must have really dented their profit on the service. At my dealer rates, 6.5L (or maybe they'd have charged for 7L - that would have been an interesting discussion!) of oil would have been near as dammit £100, of which two thirds or so is pure profit for the dealer.

 

[glojo]

mine had absolutely no problem with me taking in my own oil, and that must have really dented their profit on the service. At my dealer rates, 6.5L (or maybe they'd have charged for 7L - that would have been an interesting discussion!) of oil would have been near as dammit £100, of which two thirds or so is pure profit for the dealer.

What a very good point, something that is worth considering. These environmental charges are a pain, but let us not loose sight of how effected industries are all passing this on. Skip hire charges have increased dramatically in recent times?

John

 

[lofty]

lofty

As a final gesture to this thread I thought we could have a competition. How many air filters and Activated carbon filters would fit into one standard skip £1.00 ago hows about chaps? Oh I forgot the Vat.

Joking aside thanks for your participation in this thread it just goes to show how different folk look at things, some couldn't give a monkeys others like me take and look at things very differently, there is no doubt that as you get older you take a different view, we oldies don't like being ripped off by them young spoggs.
Lofty 43 next birthday I wish! :bannana:

 

[PJH]

...which is sold onto an oil processing firm for around 20p per litre. My brother in law does this for a living (and he reclaims restaurant oil too).

So, the customer is charged by the dealer, and the dealer also makes a cut on the recycled oil.

That is life.

I knew I was in the wrong job.

 

[glojo]

I knew I was in the wrong job.

Some large complexes used to have large heating boliers that run on old engine oil.

John

 

[lofty]

lofty

Following the telephone call from MB head office I asked Lisa if she would find out what Mercedes-Benz policy was to fuel additives/cleaners
She has come back to me again today and has said that Mercedes neither recommend nor discourage garages to use fuel cleaners. Although it does Not form part of any service

It must therefore be the customer’s prerogative to decide whether additives are added to their bill or not.
I for one, that’s if my car is serviced my MB again, will direct that any extras (Garage perks ) over and above the standard A or B service, which are carried out without my consent will not be paid for.
If I need to use fuel additives added to my fuel then I will choose the brand, as I do at present, I do not need the garage to make that choice for me.
lofty

 

[grober]

that Mercedes neither recommend nor discourage garages to use fuel cleaners. Although it does not form part of any service.
It must therefore be the customer’s prerogative to decide whether additives are added to their bill or not.lofty

Typical corporate cop out!! the "company" blah blaty blah "neither confirm or deny " blah blaty blah "just give us lots of money" blah blaty blah

 

[glojo]

Following the telephone call from MB head office I asked Lisa if she would find out what Mercedes-Benz policy was to fuel additives/cleaners
She has come back to me again today and has said that Mercedes neither recommend nor discourage garages to use fuel cleaners. Although it does Not form part of any service

Hi Lofty
Have you actually read your service booklet? That should give clear instructions, which contrary to what other members might say are not a cop out. We might not agree with the instructions, but they are clear.

Phone calls are not worth the paper they are written on.

John

 

[lofty]

lofty

jlojo i have probably read my owners manual as much as any other owner if not more so , see my site for extracts from the manual, In view of the fact the almost every year this is updated you might you might like to quote what it is you are trying to direct my attention to!
my manuals manual stutus 30.04.2001
if on the other hand you are trying to draw my attention to page 245 re the use of special additives ? what do you consider to be a special additive? Obviously MB don't consider Fuel cleaner to be special!
lofty :bannana:

 

[Vips]

Very interesting topic. Years ago I used to know an agent working for Forte who used to supply all types of additives to dealers including MB. Couldn't believe how cheap he was supplying them for!!! Lets jsut say, hefty margins!!

 

[glojo]

if on the other hand you are trying to draw my attention to page 245 re the use of special additives ? what do you consider to be a special additive? Obviously MB don't consider Fuel cleaner to be special!
lofty :bannana:

I am referring to the service booklet and you are ignoring that.

Exact Quote:

Do not use fuel additives. These could lead to increased wear and damage to the assemblies. If you use fuel additives, your warranty entitlement could be restricted.

I accept you have read your documentation as much as any other owner if not more so.

I am NOT please accept this I am NOT saying fuel additives are good, bad, or indifferent.

I confess to NOT reading your site.

When our vehicle was serviced, just like Dieselman has already pointed out (and yourself) main dealers do ADD fuel additives. I keep my receipts and if things do go wrong then I will not have far to look

You and others have said the advice is unclear????? I am NOT saying I agree with the advice, but surely it leaves NO DOUBT about the adding of fuel additives?? I find your comments are perhaps unfair?

Sorry to disagree

John

 

[lofty]

lofty

John with respect it is not me who is ignoring it, quite the contrary I have highlighted the fact that MB outlets are putting fuel cleaner into customers cars without their attention being draw to that fact. And that this is possibly in contradiction of MB written advice.
I would be grateful if you could specifically direct me to your information, as I said each of the MB handbooks does vary in its content. Does you handbook quote, fuel additives, or special additives, as does mine? After all one is specific, the other is wide reaching

From my handbook Quote fuels which do not meet the requirements of EN 228 and the use of special additives can lead to increased wear or engine damage . Unquote

Special additives is the mention, that is why I asked you what you consider to be a special additive, as I said on the basis of the information I have been given, obviously MB do not consider fuel additive to be a special additive.

However I’m more than prepared to go back to MB and get it sorted. After all there could be a number of engines at stake!
lofty

 

[glojo]

John each of the MB handbooks does vary in its content. Does you handbook quote, fuel additives, or special additives, as does mine? After all one is specific, the other is wide reaching

However I’m more than prepared to go back to MB and get it sorted. After all there could be a number of engines at stake!
lofty

Hi Lofty,
You continually refer to your handbook and I am deliberately emphasising

Emphasising

SERVICE BOOKLET

You keep asking me about "what you consider to be a special additive," I consider anything that gets put into the fuel tank other than the specified FUEL to be an additive.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE accept I have NO opinion NONE, on the rights or wrongs of this. You simply stated you could not find out what Mercedes-Benz policy on fuel additives was.

what Mercedes-Benz policy was to fuel additives/cleaners

I have copied the relevant paragraph from the SERVICE BOOKLET that clearly indicates the policy.

I then point out that when our vehicle was serviced our dealer has indeed added a fuel additive. I have NO OPINION on this, I will not however follow suit.

I cannot comment on whether your SERVICE BOOKLET contains the same information, I can merely say that it does on both our E-class and Sprinter. I would think it strange if this was not a DaimlerChrysler policy. However you have read your literature and if you say it does not say what I have posted then fine, that is good enough for me, but at least you now know what the policy is.

NO fuel additives

Please understand I am referring to the service booklet, and also I am not giving an opinion about the use of additives.

If you want me to scan the relevant page, then when I can chat up the wife to use my scanner I will arrange it.

Regards
John