Off topic (Bigtime!) - Job required

[RichardM]

One problem is large companies like the one I work, for will not take junior people on unless they have a University Degree (and a 1st or 2:1). It doesn't matter how good that person may be.

I'm in my 20's (just) and went to University then joined a small company which was taken over by a larger company who I now work for. I don't think there is any way I'd be where I am now if I hadn't gone to University.

Plus.... I had great fun at universitry

Agree with all the comments above, it sucks being just a number in a large company!

 

[Sp!ke]

You could always do an 'Archer' and just claim you went to Oxford. Since when have you ever had to *prove* you had a degree?

 

[AJTHOMAS]

The truth? With A level technology you can get a job in the service industry-Gas-electricity-water that pays about £14K in your first year.

University ed cost = £3Kx3yrs=£9K + 3yrs @ £14K= £51K behind the A level guy who has a job. And that's before you even get a job.

Question 1 - How long will it take the Graduate to earn the extra £51K to catch up with the A-level guy?

Question 2 - Will the graduate's job be more or less secure than the A-level man's job?

Question 3 - Will the graduate have to put up with more or less rubbish and shit jobs than the A-level person?

With A-Level technology you are lucky to get a job.
Half a dozen graduates with dubious degrees (who went to Uni cos they conldn't figure out what else to do with their lives at the time) would interview for the same job, in between interviewing at Tesco's for shelf stacking, and snatch the job despite showing indefference to the job description.

They would rise up the shortlist because they have demonstrated an ability to commit to extended training and have been taught how to think through problems. And of course... the degree certifiate is a comforting re-assurance in the expensive and risky business of recruiting <Coporate mentality !>


A1> About five years...
Professional graduate salary overtakes the national average within three to five years and would be expected to plateau in the upper tenth percentile. Arts / humanities graduates excepted!

A2> Depends..
Traditionally graduates are hugely expensive to recruit and nurture through two years of development assignments before they become fully productive. Hence they are seen as a long term assets and are amongst the last to leave, if they have not already been tempted away to a rival.

Alternatively, with every tom **** and harry having a degree, graduates are hired and fired just like the traditional blue collar worker.

A3> See above, good people with good degrees go places and do interesting things, weaker people get more training...


Expectations have escalated over time and qualifications in further education are becoming mandatory for increasing and often suprising sections of employment.

To get the best jobs you need to stand out as a better candidate than your peers, be that with higher vocational or academic qualifications.

PS. Not all graduates come out of uni in debt <grin>
Many cities are cheap to live in and beer is heavily subsidised. Degree level training fosters enterprise and innitiative, confidence and audacity allowing a tidy profit to be salted away over the years for when insurance companies suddenly look more kindly upon younger mercedes drivers...

 

[MainMan]

I guess the reason why education doesn't make you good with money is that finance forms no part of education in this country. I've always thought this was a strange omission. Considering that most people spend their whole life trying to earn money I'd have thought a grounding in finance would be fundamental. The average person has very little understanding of financial matters and that's why so many people are ripped off by the Financial "Services" industry. I'd guess that the rich people you know, GDC200, probably have a pretty good understanding of finance, but they didn't get it at school or university.

 

[StuartB]

I cannot believe I am going to post another message to this forum in view of the reception I normally get to what I think are innocent and sensible posts....but here goes on my thoughts re big and small companies and the meaning of life:

1) You will always be shafted by a large firm. Reason; there is always a t***er at HQ, possibly abroad who looks at a spreadsheet and says something along the lines of "we can save 2.1% on gross expenditure by moving widget manufacturing to India"....This justifies his job....nothing is more important than his position/status/family.....everyone else is superfluous to his security. The irony of this is if you are to good you will be fired....you can't have the boss looking stupid. I personally think the best way of getting promotion is to either be a family member of the boss or get to rising star status and then stitch up your boss whilst drunk and with a woman of the night...digi pictures rule.

2) You only get one life (I know this is an oldie), so work for a small firm and make a difference. You will be no less secure and you can normally work your way to being indispensable.

3) Read the E-myth, Ebay the Perfect company, Liars Poker and Donald Trumps book "The Art of the Deal". All offer good solid advice re making money.

Hope this helps and I have to say the best example of moving forward in life was done by my ex bank manager. He was made redundant and took a holiday in Thailand. He now has moved there, bought (in someone elses name as foreigners cannot own houses there) a house on the beach for a v small amount of money, has loads of fit women after him as he is foreign...hmmmmm and spends all his day fishing playing golf and going to bars......for the princely sum of £5K a year! Why do we bother....

 

[GrahamC230K]

Originally posted by StuartB

1) You will always be shafted by a large firm. Reason; there is always a t***er at HQ, possibly abroad who looks at a spreadsheet and says something along the lines of "we can save 2.1% on gross expenditure by moving widget manufacturing to India"....This justifies his job....nothing is more important than his position/status/family.....everyone else is superfluous to his security. The irony of this is if you are to good you will be fired....you can't have the boss looking stupid. I personally think the best way of getting promotion is to either be a family member of the boss or get to rising star status and then stitch up your boss whilst drunk and with a woman of the night...digi pictures rule.

It's all so true!! But when you have it good from time to time the big company can make for an easy life. All depends where you sit and who's paying attention to what you do. Or don't do!

 

[MainMan]

BTW, GDC200, my post wasn't meant to be an attack on IFAs, but you've raised a few points which need answering. My views on the financial services industry have been formed over many years during which time I've needed to be pretty quick on my feet to avoid being fleeced. I've learnt a few lessons and now all my investments, including my pension, are under my own management.

The only one I don't have control of is the endowment which was meant to pay off my mortgage, but which isn't going to. Now I know the stock market has crashed, but the fact is that I began investing in this endowment in Oct 87, so the bulk of the investment has been during the biggest and longest bull run in history. The FTSE is now back at where it was about 5 years ago, but the fact remains that for 11 of the 16 years I've invested in this product the market has been growing - and growing fast. So I'm a little disappointed that it's eventual compound interest return is going to be about 4%. I don't believe the endowment was mis-sold. It should have been a good investment. The reason it hasn't been is that the provider (Prudential) has taken very big charges from it and their investment policy has been incompetent. The fundamental problem with the financial services industry is that they've got used to levying big charges, which have been covered up by high growth. Now the growth isn't there, there's no room for 3% pa charges, but they're still being levied. This is unjustifiable when a computer program can invest better than 95% of so-called fund managers.

As for the industry having cleaned up its act, tell that to the people who have invested in splits or precipice bonds, or have a pension with Equitable Life or Pearl or NPI, or have bought unit trusts that invest in the year's hot sector like technology or Europe. The fundamental fact is that the purpose of these investments is to generate fees for the manager. If there are any profits for the investor then so much the better, but that's incidental.

I've been handling my own investment for over 10 years now and the investments that I have managed have done well. Those that I have entrusted to unit trusts and investment trusts have, with one exception (FSS), lost money. My pension was losing money until I took control of it. So I do my own research and I trust my own opinion and no financial company will make any money out of me.

My personal opinion about the future direction of the economy is that it's on the way down. The reason for this is very simple. Globalisation has produced what is becoming nearly a perfect market, so if it's cheaper to manufacture in China then that's where the work will go. Maggie thought that it was only the "dirty factory jobs" that would go to the developing countries and we could pull ourselves up by our own boot straps selling each other life insurance. But now it's the high tech jobs that are departing too. This means deflation, unless the government starts printing money - which they probably won't. Deflation will crucify company profits and the stock market. My money has been moving into gilts for the last several years and I don't think there's going to be a bond crash. Quite the reverse. Of course the financial services industry is not going to tell anyone this because they can't levy enough charges on fixed interest investments to maintain their life style. The other danger for the economy is the unregulated use of derivatives which are now at the kind of level where the whole financial stability of the world is under threat. Cash is king.

 

[Ian B Walker]

As someone who has little in the way of academic achievements on paper, I only wish that I had been more attentive at school to allow me the oppertunity of a University Education that would have allowed me to do something usefull for the Country. Please dont think that I am complaining, I am not. But a vast percentage of people did not go to Universities and still make money. I have worked for a VERY large international welding company and spent more years than I wish to remember in the Armed Forces. I was just a number, litterally. I have never been rich, unlike my brother who owns his own Compay and have no desire to be. He too never had a University Degree either. Having said that he looks a darn sight older than me. He employs ex Grads for a two year period because they are cost effective and he knows that somewhere down the line after experience has been gained, someone else is going to employ him / her for more than he offers. (no disrespect intended). I can only say that there is absolutly nothing wrong with the desire to progress and that in time everything comes to him / her when they are ready.

 

[andy_k]

interesting comment earlier in this thread about not knowing any millionaires with degrees.

Having given that one some thought there could be a very good reason for that.

Most students once they have a degree go straight off to work for someone else, the majority of millionaires who have earned their money are self employed/made.

I think at some point in their lives everyone faces up to the realisation that they hate what they are doing for a living but only the brave decide to do something about it.

Taking a drop in standards of living is usually impossible by the time most people reach their mid thirties as it would have a knock on effect on their wives, kids etc so people tend to carry on with a job they hate growing ever more resentful of the circumstances and people who place them in those circumstances which I guess is why so many marriages fall apart.

If we were all taught to work to live rather than live to work I reckon the world would be a much better place

Andy

 

[Ian B Walker]

Originally posted by andy_k


If we were all taught to work to live rather than live to work I reckon the world would be a much better place

Andy

A very valid point Andy

 

[MainMan]

No problem GDC. I get much worse slung at me on the financial sites when I post my renegade views. As far as I'm concerned there's one simple truth which doesn't seem to have dawned on most of the fund management comapnies which tout for our business, and that's as follows. Investment goes in cycles. We've been through a 40 year cycle where the equity has been king. But some of the teenage fund managers are unaware of the fact that before this phase the gilt was king. Between 1919 and 1939 the cost of living fell by nearly 25%. Gilts rose by over 30%. However, post-war inflation returned. This meant that gilts plummeted because their value was eroded while their return was fixed. Equities were favoured because companies could ride the inflation wave up by increasing prices and profits while their assets were also increasing in value. It's gone on so long that some people think that it's the norm, and that what has happened over the last few years is just a blip and normal service will be resumed soon. I don't think it will. Equities actually need inflation to prosper and inflation is nearly dead. We're in a gilt and bond cycle now and nobody is going to make money very quickly any more without taking big risks.

 

[scotth_uk]

I *do* know a millionaire with two degrees. Accountancy and Law from a leading Australian university.

Last time I had lunch with him, he'd clocked up about 15 million dollars which was happily sitting in a bank account.

The funny bit is that neither of these degrees *really* contributed to his wealth. He like many others runs a load of porn websites (one recently ranked 4th in the world).

I guess that the accountancy knowledge helped with the books in the early days and that the law degree helped him stay on the right side of the law. Apart from that - he just found something that everyone wants.

100,000 people at usd$30 per month is a lot of money.

(Oh the car collection.....)

 

[StuartB]

I thought of starting a porn site, but the only site that I could find that was half decent was www.monkeyspanker.com and I did not want to come......up with the material for the site......Therefore poorer but at least I maintained the, ahem, moral high ground!

As an aside, a collegue came in today absolutely gutted because he had dreamt that "our team" had carried out the perfect robbery and had 2 million in cash hidden in the back of the office......he then woke up and suffered that horrible ten seconds that everyone has experienced when he thought the dream was real. Same thing happened when I dreamt of Geri Halliwell.....sadly I did not last the full ten seconds...the shame of it!

 

[scotth_uk]

I had an idea a few years back.....

Guys lose socks and jocks, so why not pay a monthly credit card fee (3 or 4 quid) to have some delivered every 4-8 weeks. Always having decent underwear!

Sounds stupid doesn't it?

One of the London papers reported that a pair of US guys had started something similar recently and had a revenue in excess of $1 million US dollars in the first year.

:-(

 

[StuartB]

Sounds a pants idea to me

 

[manpolsabre]

Ummm you guys......I feel pretty depressed after reading these messages, I didn't realise just how many are dissatisfied with there jobs.

Not only is it bad in the IT services, but its almost as bad in the public sector where I work. (I think some of you know my occupation)

The bosses are absolutely clueless of whats happenning in the real world, most are spineless, pamper to the minority and want to look so proper and correct to them to such an extent it makes me £$%^&

They are unable to make a simple decision without a big meeting, and then they get it wrong. The right decision could easily have been made by an underdog, but we are the lowest of the low and not worth consulting.

They are unable to speak or write memo's without continually using the latest 'buzz words' to such a point you either don't understand what they are saying, or you have to read the memo 3 - 4 times.

They would stab you in the back as soon as look as you. All they bother about are statistics and performance indicators, and we all know they can be made to say anything.

In short, they have 'lost the plot'

Thank God I retire in 2 1/2 years so I can get out of it.

Bob

 

[MainMan]

Let me guess, Manpolsabre. Are you a cop? And the trouble with being a cop nowadays is that some prat called them all institutionally racist, so certain categories of citizen are now just cautioned for anything short of aggravated murder.

I recently spent two weeks doing jury service in London and it was a bit of an eye-opener with regard to what the police have to put up with. I could write a book about it, but there was one case which I can describe quite briefly. There were a couple of gangs confronting each other - one Black, one Turkish. The Blacks have coverted handguns and the Turks favour knives, so the Blacks tend to win. When the cop car came round the corner, the Blacks disappeared pronto and the cops followed a Turk who was carrying a butterfly knife. He dropped it by a parked car. The police arrested him and went back and picked up the knife. The said this in court and explained that when they asked the guy what he had dropped by the car that he said he dropped a chain. Now, the guy was obviously guilty of carrying an offensive weapon, so the defence solicitor argued that the police should not have revealed that he said he'd dropped a chain because he had not been cautioned. (Also gave the police man a hard time because he should have known this after n years in the force) The result was the case was dropped. There were a couple of cases a bit like this.

If anyone ever gets charged I recommend them to deny everything, lie like hell and opt for trial by jury, because as likely as not there'll be at least 2 morons in the jury who'll believe them. Alternatively there'll be some procedural irregularity that they can use to get off. No wonder the police fabricate evidence.