Oh the quality - Mercedes to be built in china!!

[splang]

See this:


DaimlerChrysler AG Receives Approval for Feasibility-Plans to Produce Mercedes-Benz Passenger Cars and Vans in China

China Executive Board established under the leadership of Dr. Rüdiger Grube for streamlining business decisions --- Prof. Jürgen Schrempp: “DaimlerChrysler significantly enhances the position on the Chinese market and reinforces its solid presence in Asia” --- Production of Mercedes-Benz passenger cars expected to begin in mid 2005.more


http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0,,0-5-7145-1-395917-1-0-0-0-0-0-9-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html


I know that at the moment it is probably for local sales - but - you wait till they find how much cheaper it is - suddenly most of the german and probably south african factories will close and well....

Doesnt bode well .... might flog my 6 month old car whilst the marque still carries some prestige!

Why or why did i switch from BMW.....

S

 

[Satch]

There are a lot of places where MB's are "locally assembled" from parts or semi finished vehicles

Examples include Egypt, Malaysia, Thailand and India where the vehicles are sold at a substantial discount to what an imported model would cost. (mostly down to import tariffs).

Yes, China will join this club as well. Unless it implodes in economic terms or reverts to the old style, analysts reckon in 25 years time it could be one of the biggest markets for cars.

The standards are said to be the same as in the mainstream plants and indeed sometimes "locally assembled" just means the absolute minimum of parts & local work to avoid being treated as an import.

But it can be a lot more. For example the all the E class vehicles assembled in India are actually painted at the Tata plant.

 

[Dieselman]

Like many people I don't like to see our manufacturing base moving to China, but I live in the real world.

If MB move their manufacturing to China, there's no reason why quality should suffer, in fact it may even improve as It will cost them less to produce a better product.
At present any company operating in Germany is crippled by "social costs" so has less money to spend on products.


Many products assembeled in Europe are made from parts made in China anyway, and I'm sure this includes MB and other car manufacturers.

Probably the Japanese had the same thoughts about foriegn car plants, but the Nissan and Toyota plants in Sunderland and Derby have prooved them wrong, taking top honours in build quality. Amazing given that we are the same car manufacturing nation that made such beauties as the TR7 and Morris Marina.

 

[scotth_uk]

To a degree we all have to face the fact that MB is not really a prestige mark anymore. Once upon a time they were the vehicle of the elite, now they are affordable to the masses.

Don't underestimate the capabilities of one of the biggest populations in the world. The Chinese are very capable.

 

[uumode]

China's factory labour rate is about £1 per day, so you can see the economics behind it, and it's a 6 day week, nearly 12 hour shifts for the majority of factories, can't speak for the car manufacturers. China generally speaking uses pure manual labour than rely on more expensive robots. I've seen them hand sand injection moulding tooling and hand solder circuit boards.

Unfortunately a lot of the new recruits don't know what a screwdriver is (having come from a rural environment). But the workforce is easily trained and keen to learn. Most things electronic are made there like toys, telephones, TVs etc but the more complex electronics like laptops, plasmas, cameras, semi conductors etc are still made in Taiwan, Korea, Singapore who have better infrastructure for that sort of thing.

BMW also have plant/s in China I believe.

 

[uumode]

To a degree we all have to face the fact that MB is not really a prestige mark anymore. Once upon a time they were the vehicle of the elite, now they are affordable to the masses.

A Class, Vaneo, V class are divergences and there is probably a heavy mainstream influence from Chrysler. MB should have instilled it's quality virtues into the parent company and not other way around

 

[andy_k]

A Class, Vaneo, V class are divergences and there is probably a heavy mainstream influence from Chrysler. MB should have instilled it's quality virtues into the parent company and not other way around

I think that Mercedes had long since gone "mainstream" and made their cars more affordable when they took over Chrysler.

It started with the 190E in the late eighties and early nineties, when they were first released they were sold as an "affordable" car that bore the Mercedes badge.

That trend carried on with the C Class (without wishing to offend all the owners of them) which are now a common sight on our roads due to aggressive marketing strategies from Mercedes.

Back in the early eighties seeing a Merc was a bit of a rarity and anyone that owned one had obviously done well for themselves - they weren't "family cars" it's not the same now.

I don't see building in China as a problem I think the problem will be the west's perception/ignorance of Chinese products/industry and their possible reluctance to buy a car manufactured in what they see as a "backward" country which of course is just about as far from the truth as you can get

Taking a look at the magnificent new grandprix circuit they constructed in a very short time span - that shows just a little of what they are capable of

Andy

 

[uumode]

Taking a look at the magnificent new grandprix circuit they constructed in a very short time span - that shows just a little of what they are capable of

Andy

Yep, fantastic.
They can also build skyscrapers in a space of a year or so.

In Tadley a very small town/village I pass on the way to work, it's taking them 6 months to resurface the main road there

 

[CLKBOY]

tata

There are a lot of places where MB's are "locally assembled" For example the all the E class vehicles assembled in India are actually painted at the Tata plant.

tata ... aaaaaaaargh ,,( runs screaming from the building!!)

 

[fuzzer]

I don't see building in China as a problem I think the problem will be the west's perception/ignorance of Chinese products/industry and their possible reluctance to buy a car manufactured in what they see as a "backward" country which of course is just about as far from the truth as you can get

Andy

Get real ... we have already see the crap that comes out of SA .. china will be soo much worse due to the level of unskilled worker they will use ..

Not to mention those wee gold made in china stickers on everything

 

[uumode]

Get real ... we have already see the crap that comes out of SA .. china will be soo much worse due to the level of unskilled worker they will use ..

Not to mention those wee gold made in china stickers on everything

I think China has more manufacturing competence than SA at least
But not much design or engineering competence to produce it's own decent car. Though having said that British Leyland didn't produce that many reliable quality cars

 

[splang]

I have an issue with their human rights record(s).....

I also wasn't happy with S. Africa - but at least they have sorted their act out....

Does mercedes really want the lowest costs no matter what?

I know that they are hoping to market towards China more - but they will probably end up building over there for more than the domestic market...

 

[silverarrow]

umm lexus better bet will mbz get the quality A1 too many faults which cannot be fixed first time jd power says it all

and used values can only drop are fiats better built

 

[andy_k]

there was an article in one of the motoring mags a few months back forecasting that china will be the next "big" market for cars. Due to the inevitable legislation regarding imports these vehicles will have to be built in China so you can see why the manufacturers are racing to cash in on this new market.

Yes we've seen the crap that comes out of South Africa but looking at these forums a fair amount of crap seems to be coming out of Germany as well

Andy

 

[scotth_uk]

>A Class, Vaneo, V class are divergences and there is probably a heavy mainstream influence from Chrysler.

I mean things like E/S classes. Every man and his taxi driver's dog has one now. I can remember when an S class was a once-per-week occurrence. Haven't the high spec S classes been 60k+ for 10+ years now, but wages have been going upsteadily (I read s story about this somewhere)?

 

[uumode]

>A Class, Vaneo, V class are divergences and there is probably a heavy mainstream influence from Chrysler.

I mean things like E/S classes. Every man and his taxi driver's dog has one now. I can remember when an S class was a once-per-week occurrence. Haven't the high spec S classes been 60k+ for 10+ years now, but wages have been going upsteadily (I read s story about this somewhere)?

Yep you're right, prices of cars have come down in real terms and loaded with more goodies.

In 1993 a 3 bed semi in my area was roughly £70k, and a Mercedes 500 SL was about the same, £71k
(in those days people referred to exotic cars as the price of a house)

now in 2004 the house is around 180k and the 500 SL has stayed the same price at £73k with loads more equipment. (A price of the house no more.. though to be fair, the housing market has gone more upwards than car prices have come downwards).

 

[Aswall]

Going by my car, having a Mercedes assembled in China would be a marked step upwards in quality!

 

[johnmc]

Not a surprise at all. Very few of the cars (comparatively) have been built in Germany for some time now. I do have concerns about quality going down each time a new plant opens, but you have to think two ways about it:
1. Who is designing the cars?
2. Who is making them?

And can the folks designing them support manufacturing in multiple locations? Quality is driven mostly from the design of a product. If you design a decent car and repeatable manufacturing process then yes, even low paid Chinese workers can make good cars. But, if Merc's product development teams turn out more of the same crap designs as they have done in the last 10 years then it won't make a blind bit of difference whether they are built in China or hand made by top (allegedly) German Engineers. The quality will be crap. I know this from experience of Electronics design and production over 20 years. Once the product (mechanicals, electronics and software) are designed the resulting quality is hard to improve as many owners of E, A, CLK, M, C class will testify with all those trips to the dealers.

Let's hope that Merc are investing in better designs. German manufacturers can't compete with the design quality from Japan. They are just better at it, and have much more experience of designing the high quality electronics and software that make modern cars work.

John

 

[Bugblatter]

My car was built in Zuid Afrika. I don't care where they build 'em as long they do it properly.

The ML seems to be the most slated and I believe they are built in the US.

PS if I wanted personal collection would they ship the car from S Africa to Germany for me to collect?

 

[fuzzer]

My car was built in Zuid Afrika. I don't care where they build 'em as long they do it properly.

The ML seems to be the most slated and I believe they are built in the US.

PS if I wanted personal collection would they ship the car from S Africa to Germany for me to collect?

Nope , they ship it to bremen and you collect it there nice try.. altho , i dunno how long you would have the car driving about in SA