Oil spec and service interval V6 TDIs ??

[w124coupe]

Hi all, time for a service yet again and now the dealer seems to have decided that all the cars going through his site will get Castrol oil to MB229.31 spec as it "covers them all" - at nearly £15/L inc VAT.

My E280CDI (06) does a lot of miles (1,200 a week or more) and so I am trying to definitively understand what Assyst interval (roughly) I should get between taking out a new mortgage for a service.

The manual lists 229.31 and 229.51 as the 2 specs for this car. The dealer service people know NOTHING and so just shrug and say either will do and the service interval is up to how I drive.

Vague internet articles suggest the .51 spec should offer "extended" drain intervals - is this right? Is there a doc I can place under their nose to educate them?

I can buy either over the web at 1/2 the .31 cost at the dealer and would dearly like to get 13,000 or so between services instead of 9,000 and so save myself the cost of a holiday each year and also save additional lost days to/from from the dealer.

What is the REAL situation supposed to be here?

(the earlier long thread never really came to a definite conclusion and the user access to the Assyst menu is GONE at the later software levels).


How come my mate's 530D goes 17-18,500 miles between services with the same type of injection and emissions system? i.e HALF the services per year that I need in my "state of the art" Merc??

(I have tried to discuss this with Merc Customer Services but they do not/will not/cannot give a straight answer - you just need to follow Assyst sir and bend over regularly).

Any insider knowledge here?

By itself, this issue will prevent me buying Merc again - I just can't afford the hugely inflated running costs.

 

[Satch]

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=13857&highlight=mb229.31

This is a right old mess and yes Dealer staff do get confused.

MB229.51 is the right spec oil for you car although you can use MB229.31.

The "1" bit on the end means they are low ash oils designed not to bung up the Cat. on an EU4 car. To do that it has a somewhat lower additive package content so actually has a shorter service life than MB229.5.

Moral is if you do not need a low ash oil do not use it but it seems to be the default setting in some Dealerships.


MB sheet 229.31 approved oils; LA "low ash" Oils

This is a new spec pioneered by Mercedes for passenger cars with diesel engines with EURO 4 soot particle filters, e.g. W211 E200 CDI, E220 CDI. The spec was introduced 7/2003. They are called LA "low ash" oils, low on sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur to limit particle filter pollution. Oils high in e.g. ZDDP additive can not qualify. 15,000km service life


MB229.51

Introduced 2005 for diesel engines with EURO 4 soot particle filters and longer service life than the 229.31 oils. Change intervals 20,000 kilometers (for comparison only an MB229.5 oil has a specified service life of 30,000km because it has a higher additive content)

 

[w124coupe]

A call to action!!

Thanks for the reply.

My summary:

Manual states that MB229.31 and MB229.51 are approved for my car (particle filter EU4 V6 TDI) but no mention of any change in service interval - just work to Assyst messages.

Dealer decides on 229.31 and "can't answer" questions re service interval versus oil spec. Also, Merc Customer Services can't answer - just follow Assyst sir.

Why might this be?

65% of new Mercs sold are diesel (figures vary but diesel is king).

Warranty work is dropping off as quality is lifted (threads on here).

229.31 gives 15,000Km service interval, 229.51 gives 20,000Km (source - this post and reading the Mobil1 site).

As a dealer, choose 229.31 as your "standard" and you increase diesel service revenue by 33.3% purely by the reduced interval between services as owners need 20/15 = 1.33 x the number of services for the same mileage.

As an add-on, charge 40% above motor-factor rate per litre for the MB229.31 oil and don't offer any options (8L per change in the V6).

Forgive me but I smell bare-assed exploitation here rather than confusion as you don't find many un-savvy confused individuals able to finance and run multi-million pound Merc franchises.....

Collectively we need to stop this - NOW.

Buy MB229.51 (can we get someone to do us a group deal??)
Book service minus oil and take it in
Include a written request to set service parameters to MB229.51 extended interval as per the oil spec.
Enjoy a big saving in money and in time off the road.

Can someone access official MB229.31 and 229.51 docs that show the drain interval and scan them in here?

 

[DieselE]

When comparing with your mate's 530D, you need to find out if that car is, like yours, EU4 compliant.

I have the straight six, genuine 3.2 litre, E320CDI. It went 16.5k to the first service. My dealer, like yours is only using one specification oil and that is for low ash oils. As a result my second service looks like coming up at 11k after the last one.

I believe that Assyst Plus is to be set to a fixed mileage between services (imperial equivalent of 15k kilometres). I can see why your mileage would make you worry about this but, like I said at the start, make sure that any car you compare servicing costs with is truly comparable and likely to be available in that spec when you change your car.

 

[w124coupe]

Yes, the 530D is 06 spec EU4.

My issue is that the first fill oil did 13,700 based on the Assyst and now I'm supposed to accept 9,000 or so.

Your dealers "low ash" oil is probably also MB229.31 (both .31 and .51 are low ash - the difference is the recommended drain interval) - therefore for you, it is a spec you don't need (low ash formula is to keep the partcile filter clean - you don't have one) and costs you a lower service interval compared with the (cheaper) MB229.5 your car could use - I'm amazed that doesn't offend you?

Regardless of your annual mileage, you will now be paying for a service at 11k intervals not 16.5k intervals - a 50% increase in the number of services over a given interval.

Where's the justification?

 

[w124coupe]

Just to be clear on this - for the first interval, my car showed 12,000 ish miles to service and then gradually extended out (I spend a lot of time 80 ish on the motorway which is very kind to the oil) until it demanded service at 13,700.

Since then, it starts at 9,000 ish and extends just a few hundred miles before asking for a service.

The dealer choice of oil (and, I assume, a corresponding setting in Assyst resulting in the start value of 9,000) is the ONLY change from the first factory fill.

I can feel a WhatCar letter coming on as this makes a mockery of the cost-of-service tables used to compare the life costs of these cars.

 

[w124coupe]

Copy of my letter to MB Customer Services - I will post their response:

Dear sir or madam, I need definitive clarification regarding the choice of engine oil and the resulting approximate Assyst service interval achieved.


My car is a 2006 E280CDI EU4 with particle filter and I am a high-mileage driver which means my service intervals are driven mostly by mileage and not time.


The manual states that MB229.31 and MB229.51 oils can be used for my vehicle as options.


The factory-fill oil resulted in an Assyst service interval of 13,700 miles before the first “A” service was indicated.


My local dealer offers only MB229.31 grade oil as a service option and is unwilling to confirm what approximate service interval this will achieve although experience has shown that the interval is approximately 9,000 miles (a 25% reduction versus the factory fill).



I need you to answer the following three specific questions:

• My understanding of the MB229.31 and MB229.51 specifications is that MB229.51 is designed to allow extended oil life of approximately 20,000Km when compared with approximately 15,000Km for MB229.31 – is this correct?

• Does the Assyst system fitted to my car make use of the “extended drain” characteristics which are part of the enhanced MB229.51 specification therefore allowing a longer service interval?

• Assuming I provide MB229.51 specification oil to my dealer in place of his MB229.31 option, will he set the Assyst system to make use of the MB229.51 specification, resulting in a longer service interval?

I am fully aware that Assyst uses driving characteristics to manage the service interval but my questions are specifically around my car’s ability to make use of the extended capabilities of the MB229.51 specification oil to provide longer oil change intervals versus MB229.31 specification oils.




Regards,

 

[Satch]

There is a suspicion that the ASSYST setting have been tweaked (or are when cars go in for service) so that for all intents and purposes most cars are or will end up on a 12 month/10,000 mile service routine with a bit of variation by reference to pattern of use. A very long way from the all signing & dancing intelligent system that was around to start with.

 

[w124coupe]

Update

No reply from Customer Services to my letter so I called them.

(they couldn't find any trace o my letter)

"Assyst decides the service interval sir, don't be concerned if it shows 9,000 miles after a service as it might extend as you drive - all depends".

Why did the first-fill oil give a 12,500 mile estimate that DID extend?

"all controlled by Assyst sir"

The guy had a American accent - I guess he is related to Stonewall Jackson.

Went to dealer today for the A service and dropped off my Mobil1 ESP MB229.51 oil (saved £67-53 buying online versus using the dealer's MB229.31 Castrol).

Dealer confirmed they would "code the cluster" for extended drain oil and we should get 13k ish miles as a result.

On the way home in the B150 loaner, phone rings and its the dealer.

"as your mileage is higher than when you booked in, "the system" is suggesting we should strip and check your brakes as they may need attention before the next service is due (because the next service is now further away because of your extended drain oil)"

As the mileage is a mighty 206 higher than when I booked it (and my previous Saab Aero ran for 76,000 miles before needing pads), my hackles rose......

How much??

£140-50 sir.

And if I decline, any effect on warranty?

No sir, but we would not be able to give you an estimate as to when your bakes might need attention.

OK then, so I would then just rely on the dash pad wear indicator instead, in the unlkiely event that the brakes will need replacment before 30,000 miles (ish)?

Yes sir.

Result: second SCAM successfully avoided.

I love the car - I HATE the smug, grabbing dealers.

By comparison, my local VW dealer for the wife's Passat measures the pads and disks FOR FREE and makes a note on the service invoice estimating the miles to go before pads and/or disks will wear out.


In summary:

Save over £60 by buying your own oil and get 13k instead of 9k service intervals.

Refuse the "optional" extras and save another £140.

 

[w124coupe]

"Service B in 12,430 miles" - result!

 

[Rory]

MB have said they're changing to fixed intervals of 15000mls on all new cars except A Class, and, I think B Class, from later this year. They said the variable service caused too much confusion (understatement of the year).

My C270CDi ran to 18500 miles before I gave in a took it for it's first service (1000 miles early). It flipped from an A to a B service just before I took it in but the dealer happily did an A service. I supplied my own 229.5 oil (Costco sell it - not .51 though) £23 per 4L. Dealer wanted £15/L, but was happy to use mine.
Car came back with service B in 13300 miles and that's gradually stretching out. So fixed intervals will be slightly worse for me!
(Oh and they noted the pad thicknesses too)!