Pop riveter issues

[SpikyMikey]

Another vote here for RivNuts in the frame (although I've never worked with Carbon Fibre. Maybe aluminium rather than steel rivet nuts as they require less pressure to set). And you'll need a rivet nut tool, but easy to get on Amazon or eBay.

 

[Darrell]

Another vote here for RivNuts in the frame (although I've never worked with Carbon Fibre. Maybe aluminium rather than steel rivet nuts as they require less pressure to set). And you'll need a rivet nut tool, but easy to get on Amazon or eBay.

How do these work?

 

[23 Romeo Tango]

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There is also a manual option without the need of the tool.

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[Darrell]

That might be the solution. Will the rivet nut clamp onto carbon that’s only 2 or 3 mm thick?

 

[st13phil]

With mushroom head do I need access to the back of the rivet? If so, I can’t get access. See the photo below to show where the cable stop is positioned View attachment 160467

Now I’ve seen where this part fits, I’m 100% with @GeeJayW 's suggestion of Rivnuts. Much more appropriate for that application.

 

[Darrell]

Now I’ve seen where this part fits, I’m 100% with @GeeJayW 's suggestion of Rivnuts. Much more appropriate for that application.

Cool. I’ve seen Ed China using them on Wheeler Dealer to fix chequer plate to a Land Rover bonnet.

All I need is a kit that gives me all that I need.

 

[JHS]

That might be the solution. Will the rivet nut clamp onto carbon that’s only 2 or 3 mm thick?

Yes. Just make sure that you use a Rivnut suitable for that thickness. These are really good for blind holes. If they do ali nuts these will be easier to drill out if you get it wrong, steel ones are a bugger.
This is dredged up from my days selling Pop rivets and Rivnuts for Tucker 20+ years ago so things may have moved on since then!

ps. my wife has a Specialized and the bottle carrier is held on with Rivnuts and set screws.

 

[Darrell]

Yes. Just make sure that you use a Rivnut suitable for that thickness. These are really good for blind holes. If they do ali nuts these will be easier to drill out if you get it wrong, steel ones are a bugger.
This is dredged up from my days selling Pop rivets and Rivnuts for Tucker 20+ years ago so things may have moved on since then!

ps. my wife has a Specialized and the bottle carrier is held on with Rivnuts and set screws.

I think ally is the way forward as I’ve got it in my head that as a steel one gets pulled up tight it’ll pull through the carbon.

What’s a blind hole??

The holes are already in the frame drilled out to 3mm.

 

[ChipChop]

As there is no way to know the internal lay up of carbon behind the cable guide might be best to ask a carbon frame repair specialist for a quote to reinstall the cable stop. Once read that Pinarello use more layers of carbon on the drive side compared to the non drive side of their frames so they are complex structures internally. Might not be worth the risk damaging that internal structure with an inappropriate fixing?

 

[Darrell]

As there is no way to know the internal lay up of carbon behind the cable guide might be best to ask a carbon frame repair specialist for a quote to reinstall the cable stop. Once read that Pinarello use more layers of carbon on the drive side compared to the non drive side of their frames so they are complex structures internally. Might not be worth the risk damaging that internal structure with an inappropriate fixing?

This was my issue from day 1 tbh. I’ve got visions of me cycling along the road, changing gear and the cable stop comes flying off and I’m left with a big hole in the top of the down tube.

A trip to the Pinarello shop in London is looming!!

 

[JHS]

I think ally is the way forward as I’ve got it in my head that as a steel one gets pulled up tight it’ll pull through the carbon.

What’s a blind hole??

The holes are already in the frame drilled out to 3mm.

I think ally is the way forward as I’ve got it in my head that as a steel one gets pulled up tight it’ll pull through the carbon.
A Rivnut does not pull through, it clamps the material it is inserted in.

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[Darrell]

I think ally is the way forward as I’ve got it in my head that as a steel one gets pulled up tight it’ll pull through the carbon.
A Rivnut does not pull through, it clamps the material it is inserted in.

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It looks very smart.

 

[Petrol Pete]

They bite into the ally , I have used them only on flat aluminium (box section , no inner access) aroung 2MM thick. Not sure they will take in carbon fibre , which appears to be curved .

 

[Will]

Just thinking of not only the access/practicality issues of forcing a fixing into a thin carbon frame - how about bonding something into the recess inside the tube - very strong type epoxy and then fixing into that (drilled/tapped?)

If you’re using rivets I think as said they’d need to be fairly soft (aluminium) type ones.

Speak to a bike shop would be my advice. The risk of damaging the carbon frame seems to outweigh the DIY savings plus spend on tools etc for a small job like this

 

[GeeJayW]

They bite into the ally , I have used them only on flat aluminium (box section , no inner access) aroung 2MM thick. Not sure they will take in carbon fibre , which appears to be curved .

The ones I linked don’t bite into the parent material. They form a clamping flange on the inside. The main concern in my view, is if the tube is curved, any kind of rivet could end up causing a crack when the rivet is clenched.

Hence my other suggestion to consider bonding the bracket (using epoxy perhaps). Using enough epoxy to form plugs in the pre-existing holes will help. I would try that first, holding the bracket in place with tie-wraps while the resin sets.

 

[Will]

It’s amazing the strength of proper bonding adhesives like epoxy etc - after all that’s what the frame is made of? Carbon fibres and resin/glue basically

 

[Bellow]

The ones I linked don’t bite into the parent material. They form a clamping flange on the inside. The main concern in my view, is if the tube is curved, any kind of rivet could end up causing a crack when the rivet is clenched.

Clamping rounded between flat could go catastrophically wrong - and I'm not referring to the gear change gubbins ending up on the ground.

Hence my other suggestion to consider bonding the bracket (using epoxy perhaps). Using enough epoxy to form plugs in the pre-existing holes will help. I would try that first, holding the bracket in place with tie-wraps while the resin sets.

There's also the remnants of what went before still in the holes with no indication as to whether removal is required or re-utilisation.

 

[GeeJayW]

Clamping rounded between flat could go catastrophically wrong - and I'm not referring to the gear change gubbins ending up on the ground.


There's also the remnants of what went before still in the holes with no indication as to whether removal is required or re-utilisation.

Indeed, clamping a curved carbon-fibre tube wall between two essentially flat aluminium surfaces could/would be problematic. Another option might be to bond some threaded inserts into the holes, but without first-hand knowledge of what wall material thickness is at that point, couldn’t say if that would be effective.

I’m dropping out of this now on the basis that I have nothing more to add. I hope @Darrell finds a suitable solution, I’m sure the frame is worthy of some effort to fix it.

 

[Darrell]

Indeed, clamping a curved carbon-fibre tube wall between two essentially flat aluminium surfaces could/would be problematic. Another option might be to bond some threaded inserts into the holes, but without first-hand knowledge of what wall material thickness is at that point, couldn’t say if that would be effective.

I’m dropping out of this now on the basis that I have nothing more to add. I hope @Darrell finds a suitable solution, I’m sure the frame is worthy of some effort to fix it.

I’m back to square one again. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[SpikyMikey]

View attachment 160451
Let’s not speak too soon!!

Blimey, for a bloke who is so gifted at leadwork, you're a monster with an angle grinder