Really Really Stupid People

[219]

Exactly so. You need to display your body language because you can't trust anybody else who may or may not be there.

You need to work on your observations to the standard that you don;t miss anyone who might not be there .

 

[Deleted member 6183]

OK , let's deal with this .

The guidance of looking and deciding whether or not a signal is necessary has existed since around 1930 , when advanced driving was first developed .

On the motorway :

there are only two possible scenarios . You wish to change lane ( whether for an overtake or for any other reason ) - FIRST , you MUST take rear observation .

If your intended lane change will in any way interfere with the progress of any other driver , whether to require them to change speed or course , then that lane change is NOT ON , you MUST wait until they have passed and then consider the move again ; no matter that you may be baulked by a slower vehicle ahead in front of you ; that is not the faster vehicle's problem , it is yours , and if you need to slow down and wait - so be it .

If your intended lane change will not in any way affect any other driver - THERE IS NO NEED TO SIGNAL YOUR INTENTION ; it is completely pointless .

Hence , I struggle to find any scenario where I would give a signal to change lanes on any multi lane road ; I ALWAYS wait until my move won't impede anyone else . It is that simple .

Distance - 3 car lengths or whatever - is irrelevant : closing speed and time is what counts : I could have someone who has kept station 3 car lengths behind me for the last 5 miles ; if I need to move out , I will do so in a gradual but definitive manner , not taking anyone by surprise and no signal required ; however , if they are bearing down on me with a significant speed difference , I will NOT pull out until they have passed , unless I determine I can be past the vehicle in front and be back in my lane before they catch up .

On a slip road , no matter the time of day : if you are coming down a slip road , it only leads one place - WHERE ELSE CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE GOING ? , there is absolutely no need to trafficate right to join a motorway ( or DC ) : it is patently obvious where you are going , and if you signal in that circumstance you will be marked down on an advanced test . It is incumbent on drivers joining to adjust their speed to avoid conflict with vehicles already on the carriageway ; also for drivers seeing traffic joining ahead to not put themselves into conflict .

When people are on foot , they naturally avoid such conflicts , usually out of politeness , it should be no different in a tin box .

I drive a BMW brother.

 

[baxlin]

I drive a BMW brother.

How did you get B*W past the swear filter?

 

[E55BOF]

I drive a BMW brother.

That explains a lot...

 

[nyssa7]

Well I admit I keep my foot on the brake while waiting at a traffic light,but if it is a road up with say a three way lights or a traffic jam thats not moving I put the car into park and put the hand brake on I never just put the prawl in the box

When I test drove a CLA45 prior to ordering, one of the first things I confirmed was that I didn’t have to keep my foot on the brake pedal for stop/start to work - you just push the pedal further and the (electric) handbrake comes on, and releases when you pull away again. I’m in the “prefer not to dazzle the chap behind” team

 

[Deleted member 113659]

When I test drove a CLA45 prior to ordering, one of the first things I confirmed was that I didn’t have to keep my foot on the brake pedal for stop/start to work - you just push the pedal further and the (electric) handbrake comes on, and releases when you pull away again. I’m in the “prefer not to dazzle the chap behind” team

That sounds like the ‘hold’ function? If so your brake lights will be on until you pull away.

 

[nyssa7]

That sounds like the ‘hold’ function? If so your brake lights will be on until you pull away.

Pretty sure they are not, that’s the whole point. now I’ll have to go and check

 

[E55BOF]

If it is actually applying an electric parking brake, the brake lights should be off. If it is just the 'brake hold' function, they won't be.

 

[rf065]

Pretty sure they are not, that’s the whole point. now I’ll have to go and check

Don't be surprised when you find they're on!

 

[Deleted member 126251]

....................

All I can tell you is this is taught by IAM , RoSPA , Police , Fire , Ambulance , Army and no doubt many others .

My wife recently (last year) did a 4 hour IAM driving assessment and was not told to turn off her indicator before completing the indicated manoeuvre. I've also never come across it.

I cannot access the book you mentioned (Roadcraft). Presumably as you are quoting "Roadcraft", you have it and can post a copy of the section with guidance on what you are saying.

Personally, I find it counterintuitive to stop signalling, my intention to other traffic, until I have completed my manoeuvre.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

If it is actually applying an electric parking brake, the brake lights should be off. If it is just the 'brake hold' function, they won't be.

I think they are somehow linked - When parking, I press the foot brake ("hold" mode comes on) before turning off the ignition and teh parking brake is already on.

 

[219]

My wife recently (last year) did a 4 hour IAM driving assessment and was not told to turn off her indicator before completing the indicated manoeuvre. I've also never come across it.

I cannot access the book you mentioned (Roadcraft). Presumably as you are quoting "Roadcraft", you have it and can post a copy of the section with guidance on what you are saying.

Personally, I find it counterintuitive to stop signalling, my intention to other traffic, until I have completed my manoeuvre.

Alas , there always has been some variance in the standard of instruction given by IAM assessors , who are volunteers - some are really excellent , others quite poor .

While I do have hard copies of Roadcraft , I am in the middle of a house move , currently in temporary accommodation , and all my books are in storage .

The technique has been taught in Police colleges for at least the last 30 years - it is analogous to turning off blue lights and sirens whilst waiting at traffic lights too ( although the reason for that is not to intimidate other drivers into going through red lights , but it does demonstrate that certain actions can be paused whilst at a standstill ) .

 

[Deleted member 126251]

The technique has been taught in Police colleges for at least the last 30 years - it is analogous to turning off blue lights and sirens whilst waiting at traffic lights too ( although the reason for that is not to intimidate other drivers into going through red lights , but it does demonstrate that certain actions can be paused whilst at a standstill ) .

Makes sense to turn off blues and 2s which are a completely different matter. Still not convinced about indicators & have not been able to find anything on the www. The search continues.

 

[SW18]

Why do you need to manually release the parking brake ? My first column shift Merc was 2013 E coupe and had two more since then and they've all automatically released the handbrake when you press the accelerator.

Hmm, I will try this! But my parking brake is a wholly manual foot-operated one with a manual release under the headlight switch. I don’t imagine it can release itself under acceleration like the modern electronic ones.

 

[Scooby_Doo]

Hmm, I will try this! But my parking brake is a wholly manual foot-operated one with a manual release under the headlight switch. I don’t imagine it can release itself under acceleration like the modern electronic ones.

Oops, I didn't realise you had the manual footbrake, so no electric handbrake. I thought that MB stopped the manual handbrake when they introduced the column shift.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Again , if turning left , or turning right , makes no difference , you start signalling BEFORE moving off ; if you think that pedestrians or other road users are not aware of you , then exercise caution , and use the horn if necessary ; it is incumbent on pedestrians to check for traffic before stepping off the kerb - only a fool steps out blindly .

I don‘t agree with cancelling indicators whilst stationary and I wasn’t taught to do so when receiving my ambulance driving training. But I’m particularly puzzled by this paragraph. “... if turning left, or turning right ...if you think pedestrians ... are not aware of you ... use the horn if necessary.“ When I last read the HC it told me that at junctions you should watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way. Are you saying that pedestrians wanting to cross a junction road to your left or right should guess that you might turn into that road even though you’re not indicating that intention when they glance over towards you? And furthermore, are you saying that you should sound your horn to warn them that you will be turning into that road so they better not step off the kerb because you won’t give them priority? I don’t like the sound of all that.

What about oncoming drivers ? It works just the same for them - if you start trafficking BEFORE you move off you are giving them plenty of notice , besides which , if you are turning right across their path , you have to accord them priority , so it makes little difference to them whether you are turning right or going straight ahead - their driving plan is not affected .

All I can tell you is this is taught by IAM , RoSPA , Police , Fire , Ambulance , Army and no doubt many others .

But you well know that not all turning drivers give priority in these circumstances. Leaving the right turn indicator flashing offers a bit of advance warning to oncoming drivers that there’s an increased possibility of a vehicle trying to cross in front of them, and thus take extra care to avoid an incident. Every little piece of information is useful and far better than assumptions.

 

[219]

I don‘t agree with cancelling indicators whilst stationary and I wasn’t taught to do so when receiving my ambulance driving training. But I’m particularly puzzled by this paragraph. “... if turning left, or turning right ...if you think pedestrians ... are not aware of you ... use the horn if necessary.“ When I last read the HC it told me that at junctions you should watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way. Are you saying that pedestrians wanting to cross a junction road to your left or right should guess that you might turn into that road even though you’re not indicating that intention when they glance over towards you? And furthermore, are you saying that you should sound your horn to warn them that you will be turning into that road so they better not step off the kerb because you won’t give them priority? I don’t like the sound of all that.



But you well know that not all turning drivers give priority in these circumstances. Leaving the right turn indicator flashing offers a bit of advance warning to oncoming drivers that there’s an increased possibility of a vehicle trying to cross in front of them, and thus take extra care to avoid an incident. Every little piece of information is useful and far better than assumptions.

If stopped at a red light , after dark , then cancel indicators to reduce annoyance to people behind - this is training at police college . The indicators should be started BEFORE moving off , so pedestrians 'glancing' back will see them if just about to step off , yes they do have priority once one foot is in the roadway , a polite use of the horn is for pedestrians approaching the junction , not for those already on it . It all sounds very cumbersome in words , but really is very simple in reality . As a driver , you still have to look out for others .

 

[190]

a polite use of the horn is for pedestrians approaching the junction , not for those already on it . It all sounds very cumbersome in words , but really is very simple in reality . As a driver , you still have to look out for others .

I have an audible beeper which sounds when the indicators are operating on my motorcycle. It's very effective at warning pedestrians of my approach. and serves the same purpose as the polite use of the horn above. While I accept they have priority once they have started to cross I don't want them stepping out when I'm too close to stop. A black and white liability, effectively means the pedestrian can step out when you are 3 ft away and it will still be the vehicles fault which frankly is nonsense. Some form of warning is useful to prevent that scenario.


Since the advent of LED lights the type approval authorities would appear to have lost control of indicator and particularly brake light lumen output which must have doubled or tripled compared to the old fixed wattage incandescent bulbs. It's now more than ever appropriate that drivers exercise Courtesy and consideration for causing glare to those behind them. For those that say they are not bothered by the glare, then be thankful your eyesight is better than others, it might not last.

 

[SW18]

Oops, I didn't realise you had the manual footbrake, so no electric handbrake. I thought that MB stopped the manual handbrake when they introduced the column shift.

Yes, it’s a bit of an odd quirk! I console myself that at least the manual parking brake will be cheap to fix if anything ever goes wrong.

 

[SW18]

Are you saying that pedestrians wanting to cross a junction road to your left or right should guess that you might turn into that road even though you’re not indicating that intention when they glance over towards you?

Sadly many drivers seem to think this is exactly the case. As a pedestrian it’s a common experience to have drivers think they have priority turning into side streets. I like the Dutch approach used in some of their shopping streets - the pavement carries on across junctions to side streets and drivers have to go up and over it via a ramp, which helps reinforce the pedestrian priority rule.