Yes , really : consideration for other road users .
Really Really Stupid People
- Thread starter Alex225
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Doesn’t matter what you drive , the Mk 1 eyeball is equally likely to be dazzled by these emulators of the Pharos of Alexandria
D
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Is that what MSM means on the other threads?
It is all in here , available from HMSO
If you are carrying out the manoeuvre uninterrupted then yes , but if you have to stop and wait for a sequence of traffic lights to pass , then out of consideration to people behind after dark , you should cancel them , or remove your foot from the brake , until you are ready to move off again . It is not a problem in daylight , perhaps even in built up areas with bright street lighting , but it can be a very real problem in unlit places .
Remember , even in the novice driving test , it is a requirement to apply parking brake and select neutral when stopped at lights , not to do so is recorded as a fault .
MSM was a very much simplified system for the general public who were never going to devote much attention to driving .
The original system , developed by the Earl of Cottenham for the London Metropolitan Police , and first implemented at Hendon was the six feature system
1) Mirror , select course
2) Mirrors , signals , speed
3) select gear
4) Mirrors , signals ( again )
5)! Horn ( consider warning of your approach)
6) Acceleration ( 2 phases )
In more recent years , this has been replaced by the ‘new’ system , which works in ‘phases’ which can overlap and indeed be continuous. IPSGA
Information ( covers both observation and giving of information)
Position
Speed
Gear
Acceleration.
Both systems have their merits , and as a former instructor and sometime examiner , I always taught people the ‘old’ system to start with then moved them onto the ‘new’ one .
You can see it demonstrated in this instructional video I made a number of years ago - go to approx 7 min in to see the system applied to the approach to a roundabout .
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How come??Personally, I think Bill Gates is to blame
He invented windows didn’t he, which you can wind down to facilitate the use of perfectly clear hand signals, none of this flashing lights lark......
D
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I have never stopped behind a vehicle and thought "his indicator/brake lights are dazzling me". When did that become a problem for anybody?
Consideration is to let everyone unambiguously know your intentions. If the car ahead indicated a turn and then and stopped the indicator, I'd immediately assume that the driver had changed their mind and now wanted to go straight on.
Even worse for a left turn when the car ahead may not move off promptly because of pedestrians crossing. What about the pedestrians? How do they know what the driver is planning to do?
What about oncoming drivers...............?
As mentioned in other posts, I have attended many, many driver training courses and have never been told that after initially signalling and waiting for the lights to change, I should stop my indicator. What about the vehicles that were not behind when the turning car stopped? Some defensive driving techniques would be defeated if people only indicated for the car immediately behind them.
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How come??
He invented windows didn’t he, which you can wind down to facilitate the use of perfectly clear hand signals, none of this flashing lights lark......
I seem to remember having to demonstrate hand signals as part of my driving test - would have been early 80's. Do I remember correctly?
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I recall having to, that was early 70's
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Not driving but I do remember using hand signals on my cycling proficiency test in the early 80’s. I’ve never once seen a cyclist using the ‘I’m slowing down’ hand signal.
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With the advent of high-level third brake lights. It can be quite unpleasantly dazzling sitting behind a car with a central brake light glaring at you at night.
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I’ve mentioned this many times. It’s even more of an issue with the introduction of super bright modern LED rear lights. Especially for those (like me) with ultra sensitive vision. During nighttime driving when sat behind a car I‘m in the habit of lowering the sun visor until the car in front pulls away.
Because of this, I’m wary and considerate of the car behind me so I always either pop the handbrake on and foot off the brake or select neutral. Takes only a second. It’s nice to be nice.
However, indicators never seem to bother me at all.
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Must be a very subjective thing as I can honestly say I've never been bothered by brake or indicator lights.
Now, headlamps are a different kettle of fish... So many badly adjusted and downright blindingly bright. New Minis and Range Rovers particularly..
Now, headlamps are a different kettle of fish... So many badly adjusted and downright blindingly bright. New Minis and Range Rovers particularly..
This makes sense; I’ve often wondered about it - and even more so with brake lights. I feel for the car behind sometimes at night when my huge full-width tailgate-top brake light is stuck on at junctions. People behind have their faces illuminated bright red in my mirror. But it’s not easy to cancel it with a column shifter and pedal-operated parking brake...
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It's the almost ubiquitous MB pedal-operated parking brake that's the problem. In all my Mercedes, the only one I've ever had with a conventional handbrake is the SLK. It's a shame the Brake Hold/SBC Hold function also illuminates the brake lights.
W201's had a conventional handbrake but there was a down side in terms of it's effectiveness. Because of the very small parking brake shoes inside the rear disc hubs it needed quite a strong pull to hold the car against the creep of an auto box. That is probably the logic behind a foot operated parking, at least where inadequately sized brake shoes have been used.
The big upside to a conventional hand brake for manual transmission cars was ease of hill starts. Until hill start assist came along the foot operated handbrake was a 3 act farce with a manual transmission at least until you acquired the skill and timing to make it work.
The big upside to a conventional hand brake for manual transmission cars was ease of hill starts. Until hill start assist came along the foot operated handbrake was a 3 act farce with a manual transmission at least until you acquired the skill and timing to make it work.
Open cars don;t need windowsHow come??
He invented windows didn’t he, which you can wind down to facilitate the use of perfectly clear hand signals, none of this flashing lights lark......
D
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I never stop that close - it has never bothered me.
it affects some people more than others - many people do find it dazzling - regardless of dispute it IS the instruction used by advanced driving organisations .
If there is no one present on the approach , no need to signal at that point ; if someone appears on the scene , you signal BEFORE moving off - perfectly considerate .
Again , if turning left , or turning right , makes no difference , you start signalling BEFORE moving off ; if you think that pedestrians or other road users are not aware of you , then exercise caution , and use the horn if necessary ; it is incumbent on pedestrians to check for traffic before stepping off the kerb - only a fool steps out blindly .
What about oncoming drivers ? It works just the same for them - if you start trafficking BEFORE you move off you are giving them plenty of notice , besides which , if you are turning right across their path , you have to accord them priority , so it makes little difference to them whether you are turning right or going straight ahead - their driving plan is not affected .
All I can tell you is this is taught by IAM , RoSPA , Police , Fire , Ambulance , Army and no doubt many others .
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