Rear ended yesterday but third party refusing to pay

[Meldrew2]

It could be argued that the immediate and minor expense was necessary in order to mitigate your loss. The potential loss of earnings if you were unable to access your tools and carry goods in the van would rapidly add to thousands. +1 for small claims court.

 

[BTB 500]

The other party , by virtue of the fact that she ran into the back of the OP's van would have quite a heavy burden of proof to demonstrate why she should not be held at fault ( in as much as she apologised at the roadside , that can be taken as admission of guilt )

Without video / witnesses / etc. there's no proof of any of this though? Just the OP's word against the other driver's as to what happened and who said what.

 

[Will]

I think this thread is a good example of doing the 'nice' thing isn't always the 'right' thing.

To be honest, the correct way would have been for both parties to contact the respective insurance companies.

If the OP's van was unusable - they would have supplied a courtesy vehicle. And in any case, I guess a claim for loss of earnings/uninsured losses could be forthcoming etc.

Although I sympathise greatly as he sounds like a decent guy trying to be nice, I do agree within Grober.

Let's be honest, we all know people who've had a bump and either blame someone else or make out that the damage is un-noticable/will polish out etc. I reckon the girl played the innocent/almost blameless person and didn't realise she had caused much/any damage.

As nice as it was for the OP to get the van fixed at such a low cost, the trouble is they had it fixed without any chance for the OP to decide whether to claim off their insurance or not, to dispute fault (!) or even see the extent of the damage or anything.

I'd chalk the money up to experience. If both parties were to declare the accident then the OP's increase in premiums for the next 3-5 years would probably be a similar amount.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Winston Wolf is your man.

 

[219]

Without video / witnesses / etc. there's no proof of any of this though? Just the OP's word against the other driver's as to what happened and who said what.

Quite .

However , in a case such as this one , where the incident took place at traffic lights , and the vehicle behind crashed into the back of the vehicle in front - the presumption will always be that the driver behind was at fault .

That creates quite a burden of proof for the driver behind to overcome , and without clear evidence to the contrary , the courts will accept the testimony of whoever comes across as the most credible and with the most likely version of events , in this case that the car behind failed to stop safely and ran into the back of the van .

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Why would this go to court?
Who would bring the case?
Is it worth it for £230?
How much time and effort would this take?
How long does it take to earn £230?

 

[markjay]

I always told my wife that whatever happens on the road she should ALWAYS go down the insurance route (her fault or not). Yes on some occasions it may lead to additional costs (premium etc), but with a fully protected NCD the potential financial damage is minimised and well worth it compared to the amount of hassle that can come out of a non-insurance case that goes wrong.

 

[markjay]

Incidentally.... if the father asked for quote and photos then in his mind he has alrelady resigned himself to idea that he will have to pay.... and since you are considering the possibility of taking the full cost on the chin... the most likely outcome is that the father will eventually pay part of your costs.

And while he may not have been very fair about all this... you also bear some of the blame because you know things would have been easier if you did take photos and if you did call the girl and inform her before approving the repair to the garage.

So you will most probably get some of the cost back (or with a bit of luck, all of it), and you'll now what to do in similar circumstances in future...

But I do understand that beyond the financial consideration it is very frustrating when you behave in an honest way (forget whiplash, you could have rented a van while yours is being repaired, then claim for loss of income during the days you had to visit the garage etc), and the other party is simply taking the proverbial p1ss.

 

[Meldrew2]

Why would this go to court? To reclaim losses

Who would bring the case? The OP as Plaintiff

Is it worth it for £230? Not just the money but definitely worth it the principle IMHO

How much time and effort would this take? Very little. MCOL takes less than 10 minutes

How long does it take to earn £230? A lot longer than 10 minutes for most of us.

As a SME owner I have found MCOL very useful for pursuing unpaid bills. 9 times out of 10 the issue of proceedings results in immediate payment.

 

[Gene]

Sorry for the OP.
From similar bitter experience, I will always take pictures and go down the insurance
route. I paid the price when I had to part ex. The minor bump was far worse than I thought
The dealer picked it.
Lots of pictures if no witness and at least a logged call to the police.

 

[texasjohn]

It could be argued that the immediate and minor expense was necessary in order to mitigate your loss. The potential loss of earnings if you were unable to access your tools and carry goods in the van would rapidly add to thousands. +1 for small claims court.

I was just about to say something very similar.

I'd writes letter to this effect to the third party, give them three days to pay and advise that you will thereafter pursue through court or insurance, together with all your costs of doing so.

You have to act on day four if no payment / response received.

Send it recorded signed for and don't handwrite the envelope.

Any chance there was a witness?

Finally report it to police if not already done so.

 

[219]

Why would this go to court?
Who would bring the case?
Is it worth it for £230?
How much time and effort would this take?
How long does it take to earn £230?

1) out of principle - the woman rear-ended OP's van and caused damage , for which she must pay to make good .

2) OP - via small claims track

3) small claims action costs circa £35 ; well worth it to recover £230

4) Fill out a form , so not much

5) depends if you are Donald Trump or the local lavatory cleaner

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Why would this go to court? To reclaim losses

Who would bring the case? The OP as Plaintiff

Is it worth it for £230? Not just the money but definitely worth it the principle IMHO

How much time and effort would this take? Very little. MCOL takes less than 10 minutes

How long does it take to earn £230? A lot longer than 10 minutes for most of us.

As a SME owner I have found MCOL very useful for pursuing unpaid bills. 9 times out of 10 the issue of proceedings results in immediate payment.

You may well be feeling flushed by your success, however, think of the OP's situation.

Should you get into a hearing with your non-payer you will be able to attend with good evidence of your entitlement to the money due in the form of contracts, invoices etc. Maybe even CCTV footage of his arrival/departure.

Our man turns up with nothing, no independent witness, no photos, no evidence of liability at all. All he has is 'she says, he says' which is not a great position to be in when there's 'only' £230 at risk. What if the DJ rules against him or adjourns for another hearing? What a waste of time for everyone.

Edited to add:

Out OP couldn't afford the time to wait for his van to be fixed, in fact he was getting it done at the crack of dawn so he could be straight back on the road. Does he want to take time out (unpaid by the sound of it) to attend court out of principle?

 

[BTB 500]

However , in a case such as this one , where the incident took place at traffic lights , and the vehicle behind crashed into the back of the vehicle in front - the presumption will always be that the driver behind was at fault .

That creates quite a burden of proof for the driver behind to overcome , and without clear evidence to the contrary , the courts will accept the testimony of whoever comes across as the most credible and with the most likely version of events , in this case that the car behind failed to stop safely and ran into the back of the van .

Yes, agreed. I've been on the other side of this though when a car suddenly reversed back at a junction and hit the front of my car while I was stationary!

As an aside I happened to catch part of 'Motorway Cops' (or similar) on TV the other day while waiting for something else, and this included a BMW driving at speed into the back of a car stationary at a toll booth on the M6. All captured on CCTV, no evidence of any braking by the BMW, but they decided not to take any action taken against the driver (who it seemed had been looking for a credit card)?!! Presumably no problem attributing blame for insurance though ...

 

[Jukie]

The police won't be interested now. No injuries and not reported at the time, they've got far more important doughnuts to eat.

Damage only, details exchanged....no requirement to report it to the police, no requirement for police attendance, whether we're eating doughnuts or not.....

 

[zipdip]

Well you have learned a lesson no matter who it is take the photo's get the name and address of the driver and the phone number,and then you can say I will get it looked at call me at tonight and I will tell you what it is going to cost if you do not I will put it through the insurance,over the years I had it all with women drivers one said her husband was a police officer,another said she was ill and had to leave the scene of the accident,they both changed their minds when I call the police,fact is people are not honorable they are always looking to say it was not me when it was,a shame but you will not make that mistake again.

 

[NDFR]

Why would this go to court? To reclaim losses

Who would bring the case? The OP as Plaintiff

Is it worth it for £230? Not just the money but definitely worth it the principle IMHO

How much time and effort would this take? Very little. MCOL takes less than 10 minutes

How long does it take to earn £230? A lot longer than 10 minutes for most of us.

As a SME owner I have found MCOL very useful for pursuing unpaid bills. 9 times out of 10 the issue of proceedings results in immediate payment.

User name checks out.

 

[oldguy57]

I would suspect that on receipt of court papers "daddy" would cough up immediately.

 

[Felstmiester]

Just an update on this for everyone who took time to respond.

After a bit of thought I didn't go any further with this. As said by others in this thread I didnt want it to effect my insurance in any way and if it had gone that route it may well of turned out that it had come renewal time.

I didn't and couldn't phone daddy again due to the fact I already had the address that I must add was very local and after the first phone call my wife had to talk me into not going round there. I found it so annoying he had an attitude with me over me trying to help it made me forget and not care about any damage. All I wanted to do is go and give him a stern talking to and believe me I'm not good when it comes to talking

But again like others have said. It's a learning curve. If this sort of thing happens again I will do everything by the book.

It's a shame we can't all help one another out from time to time and get appreciated for the good deed. But I guess that's how it is nowadays.

 

[bob6600]

I followed this thread and it is difficult to say what you should have done. I would be annoyed that she has got away with it and Daddy thinks you're a scammer trying it on. I know insurance companies look for any excuse to jack up your premiums but that's what we pay for.

If it was £230 and no other driver involved, no brainer not to go through insurance. However if there was a 3rd party involved and at fault, I would have claimed through insurance. Although she doesn't seem the type, she could claim on your insurance and then you have to justify why you didn't claim in the first place, it ends up a 50-50 claim and you lose a lot more than £230

Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead but I have read plenty of instances where this has happeed