Relative fuel costs of petrol and electric

[ALFAitalia]

What range did it have to start with? As I recall, Leafs didn't have much when they were new, and 60-80 miles is still fine for many use cases. If its no longer suitable for him, why not sell it and just buy a newer one with better range?

You are correct....I realised that was the number he told me it used to be......far less now....hence the dealers told him a new battery is required....Im getting old! Claimed when new was 60 to 80 miles.

 

[KennyN]

Where I used to work had EV charging and it was all registered to the appropriate company car and logged. Not available to lower tier scum not worthy of a company car (like me).

They are not "pukka" vehicle chargers , just a few external 16A sockets that the "leccy" guys use with their adapters when on shift , their eleven hour shift is more than enough time to charge the batteries for free.

At present we have a Leaf and a Tesla using this "facility" , all i get is free hot water to wash my vehicles when on shift and we are quiet.

K

 

[CoopsSA]

I had read (although not checked out the law myself to verify this) that charging an EV at work is exactly the same as using a fuel card at work for tax purposes, and therefore the fill ups should be correctly logged and BIK paid appropriately. This is a tax that mist be paid and attributed to the individual, and not paid on a blanket basis by the company.
Failure to pay benefit in kind tax on vehicle fuel (a benefit) provided by an employer would therefore be tax evasion (not avoidance) and penalties for tax evasion can be quite steep.

I guess if huge numbers of employers are offering this, it might be too much to enforce effectively and fingers in ear and whistling might be an effective strategy to avoid enforcement action?

Where I used to work had EV charging and it was all registered to the appropriate company car and logged. Not available to lower tier scum not worthy of a company car (like me).

I don't believe that's correct.

In 2018, a draft policy paper was released (later incorporated from April 2018) and the measure sought to "introduce legislation to exempt from Income Tax and National Insurance contributions any liability arising from the provision of charging facilities (including electricity) to employees recharging all-electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles at or near the workplace, where facilities are made available generally to the employer’s employees"

It stated in the paper that the measure did not apply to taxable cars and vans, as they were already taxable as benefits in kind, and therefore the provision of charging facilities and electricity are treated as "connected costs already subject to a separate exemption".

Employers do need to cover off a few points to ensure they are exempt but it's a matter of course that they will:

• Must have dedicated charging points
• Points must be situated at the workplace
• Points must be made available for employees at that particular location to use and no one should be subject to discrimination when it comes to the charging points

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My friend has one of the first Leasfs.....it now has about a 60 to 80 mile range so needs a new battery.....cost?...about £5400 ....value of car?....about £5000!!.....so whilst trying to be green we have actually invented the disposable car!!

Tell him to have a look at a vlog by Robert Llewellyn who used a Dutch EV specialist recycler to replace the batteries on his 2011 Leaf with recycled larger capacity, yet same physical size batteries, in order to increase the range on his car. (Not because his batteries had lost capacity)

It was all done quite economically, although I can't remember the numbers.

 

[MrGreedy]

Thanks @CoopsSA

My experience was pre 2018 and not available to all staff.

With the Gov's push to eleccy, it makes sense to simply it

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Tell him to have a look at a vlog by Robert Llewellyn who used a Dutch EV specialist recycler to replace the batteries on his 2011 Leaf with recycled larger capacity, yet same physical size batteries, in order to increase the range on his car. (Not because his batteries had lost capacity)
It was all done quite economically, although I can't remember the numbers.

£8,500 fitted to install a 40kwH battery giving roughly 130 mile real world range.

A lot of money, by one calculation, but cheaper than trading in to a much newer car.

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[Bobby Dazzler]

My friend has one of the first Leasfs.....it now has about a 60 to 80 mile range so needs a new battery.....cost?...about £5400 ....value of car?....about £5000!!.....so whilst trying to be green we have actually invented the disposable car!!

What was the real range when brand new?

 

[grober]

What was the real range when brand new?

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[KennyN]

One of the chaps in work has just purchased an 2018 approved used Leaf , his commute is a 90 mile round trip (Dunfermline - Cardonald) and if he leaves his house with a full charge he either has to charge it at work or stop on the way home for a top up as squeaky bum time sets in around Livingston. Fine topping up on the way home from nightshift when all is quiet but trying to get a charger around 4pm is a challenge at present , once leccy vehicles become more popular i can imagine how difficult it will be to get a top-up charge.

K

 

[CoopsSA]

Did some quick data capture over the last couple of days on the EQC:

- Charged car to 80% on Monday night
- Travelled total of 120 miles across Tuesday and Wednesday (92+28)
- Charged back to 80% on Wednesday night

Cost of that was £8.01 (@ 15.93p per kwh, 50.3 kwh)

That's 6.7 pence per mile

Bare with me here as this is a very broad brush comparison
- £8.01 would have bought 4.81 litres of petrol (@ £1.67 per litre) or 4.47 litres of diesel (@1.79 per litre)
- Using a flat 45 mpg consumption, would have returned 47.56 miles (petrol) or 44.22 miles (diesel)
- Therefore the relative cost per mile of petrol would be 16.84 pence per mile or diesel at 18.11 pence per mile


Obviously that doesn't take into account any purchase costs, ownership costs (insurance, company car BIK tax etc) or maintenance costs for any of the vehicles. It's purely a comparison of efficiency.

Does that make sense or not?

 

[BTB 500]

Fine topping up on the way home from nightshift when all is quiet but trying to get a charger around 4pm is a challenge at present , once leccy vehicles become more popular i can imagine how difficult it will be to get a top-up charge.

We were at the NEC recently for Crufts ... I was quite staggered that a venue like that only has 22 charging points (all of them 'slow' ones). 14 are 'first come / first served' and 8 are bookable ... those are all in their most expensive 'premium' car park though:

 

[KennyN]

This is more like it , price wise around £11k , can see a few of the bigger boys questioning their EV pricing once this hits the streets.

2024 Dacia Spring: price, specs and release date | heycar

The Dacia Spring Electric arrives this year to bring EVs to the masses with a starting price from just £14,995.

heycar.co.uk

K

 

[Ted]

I can see that flying off the shelves. It even looks half decent (imho of course)

 

[KennyN]

I can see that flying off the shelves. It even looks half decent (imho of course)

It doesn`t look that bad , obviously the one in the pics isnt the poverty spec one but even at £13k - £14k it is still a major contender for a leccy town car.

We looked at a new Sandero when the wife was trading in her Scenic (with a dodgy clutch) and would have had one for £5995 otr if there wasn`t a long waiting list as the Scenic`s clutch was really on its last micron of friction material.

We have about £12k in her Juke ATM , so if we can get her into a top spec Spring for a couple of thousand more then we will certainly be giving it some serious consideration , whenever they become available.

K

 

[190]

Does that make sense or not?

It makes sense but it's slightly biased towards the EV on a low electricity price and high fuel prices that have already dropped overnight to below 160p in my locality for petrol.

Your unit electricity price of 15.93 p/KWh is brilliant and I'm jealous but it won't last though will it. Most of us are already paying 20p and in a weeks time it will be 28P. Come October it could be 40P. That would cast a different light on the calculations.

 

[merc07]

Did some quick data capture over the last couple of days on the EQC:

- Charged car to 80% on Monday night
- Travelled total of 120 miles across Tuesday and Wednesday (92+28)
- Charged back to 80% on Wednesday night

Cost of that was £8.01 (@ 15.93p per kwh, 50.3 kwh)

That's 6.7 pence per mile

Is that a special rate, overnight ?
My standard variable is 29p, probably 45p in April then another big jump on the way in October ..

That makes it £14.59, rising to £22.64 and then some in October !

12.2p / 18.9p a mile, cheaper to run my 350 diesel, average 49mpg that's what 16p/mile ? unless fuel prices go up in line with the electricity charges I guess..

 

[A.J.]

Is that a special rate, overnight ?
My standard variable is 29p, probably 45p in April then another big jump on the way in October ..

That makes it £14.59, rising to £22.64 and then some in October !

12.2p / 18.9p a mile, cheaper to run my 350 diesel, average 49mpg that's what 16p/mile ? unless fuel prices go up in line with the electricity charges I guess..

Plus 5 minute fill ups and no range anxiety. What more could you want

 

[davymead]

From where I’m sitting, the whole EV idea could well be the least of our worries with some serious energy shortages clearly now on the very near horizon. North Sea Oil and Gas maybe back on the table, as it were.
Boris needs to make his mind up. Buy it or drill for it.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

One of the chaps in work has just purchased an 2018 approved used Leaf , his commute is a 90 mile round trip (Dunfermline - Cardonald) and if he leaves his house with a full charge he either has to charge it at work or stop on the way home for a top up as squeaky bum time sets in around Livingston. Fine topping up on the way home from nightshift when all is quiet but trying to get a charger around 4pm is a challenge at present , once leccy vehicles become more popular i can imagine how difficult it will be to get a top-up charge.

K

On such a commute, it only takes the briefest stop to top the car up at any point in both journeys. For sure it’s a faff but it still save £80 a week, or £4K a year out of post-tax income, less the charge cost of there is one.

 

[merc07]

Plus 5 minute fill ups and no range anxiety. What more could you want

But I forgot the emmisions charges if driving into a city center, near me:

Bath - free for private vehicles
Bristol £9