Remembers to Give Way

[markjay]

Its the Lorry drivers right of way though, all the car had to do is slow down.

My father - who is retired now but was a professional driver was over 50 years - always says: right-of-way is something you give, but never take.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Its the Lorry drivers right of way though, all the car had to do is slow down.

Agreed, however....

If the lorry had slowed a little or changed lanes this might have been a total non-event.

 

[John]

By the looks of it - if the car had maintained the same speed before reaching the front of the lorry, it would have fitted easily into that gap.

I get the sense though whilst the car is in the wrong for being a bell end, the lorry driver was bloody-minded about it.

 

[Stratman]

^^^Or the lorry had another vehicle alongside and/or was being slipstreamed by another lorry, which would make moving across or slowing down risky, and would also impact on other road users.

Only one vehicle in the video crossed 'Give Way' markings without it being safe to do so.


Section 259 of the Highway Code

259
Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should:

give priority to traffic already on the motorway
check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking.

 

[Giantvanman]

I used to be all for the more altruistic approach to driving but there are so many idiots (literally and colloquially) that it can be quite tiresome allowing for their inept or aggressive driving.

The car driver didn't look right whilst on the slip road to see what he/she may come into conflict with and didn't look over shoulder/check mirrors whilst progressing on the slip road OR they did both/either and then demanded/expected the lorry to change lane to allow them to join whilst making no effort on their own part.

Neither method of driving should be acceptable even though it is commonplace and thankfully in this case, stupid/aggressive/careless lost without harm to another.

 

[Dieselman]

Ii can't believe some of you are attempting to turn this into a long winded debate.

The car driver was at fault in every way.

As far as the lorry driver having to take some kind of action to let in the car, that undertook to pass the lorry. Not only, why should he have to take measures, but the car was probably not visible to the lorry driver until the impact.

It's unbelievable that the car driver attempted a whiplash claim.

The little turd should be put in stocks and properly whiplashed.

 

[renault12ts]

^^^Or the lorry had another vehicle alongside and/or was being slipstreamed by another lorry, which would make moving across or slowing down risky, and would also impact on other road users.

Only one vehicle in the video crossed 'Give Way' markings without it being safe to do so.


Section 259 of the Highway Code

It isn't a "give way" line.

You cannot stop on a slip road...you must match your speed to the motorway traffic and join. The Civic driver did not know what he was doing, he had plenty of space, but not enough pace...and then just blindly pulled over to his right...he'd have been better carrying on over the hatched area rather than cause this incident.

 

[renault12ts]

Agreed, however....

If the lorry had slowed a little or changed lanes this might have been a total non-event.

Changed lanes? Are you serious?

 

[Dieselman]

It isn't a "give way" line.

You cannot stop on a slip road...you must match your speed to the motorway traffic and join. The Civic driver did not know what he was doing, he had plenty of space, but not enough pace...and then just blindly pulled over to his right...he'd have been better carrying on over the hatched area rather than cause this incident.

It is still a Give Way line.

The car driver should have Given Way to the lorry.

I can't believe we are having any debate about this...The World's gone mad.

 

[developer]

You have to draw the line somewhere.

 

[renault12ts]

It is still a Give Way line.

The car driver should have Given Way to the lorry.

I can't believe we are having any debate about this...The World's gone mad.

You are correct, we are in agreement...why so pedantic? Chill.





















Still not a give way line though.

 

[moonloops]

For all the ifs, buts and maybes: As already posted above, you have to give way to vehicles on the carriageway when joining it. You can't make a judgement on the lorry driver as you can't see what's in the next lane + also the car driver seems to commit to the move with a slight hesitation sans indicators and the dive in to the lane.

p.s. if the car driver listened at school he would have being driving an AMG so problem solved (baaaaarp baaaaaaaaaaaaaaarp) warp 14 and on my way

 

[markjay]

...As far as the lorry driver having to take some kind of action to let in the car, that undertook to pass the lorry. Not only, why should he have to take measures...

Interesting view. Personally, I always make every effort to avoid collision with other vehicles regardless of who is at fault. But then again I drive a small car and feel vulnerable - I suppose that if you drive a big lorry you have no such worries, as long as the law is on your side you just plough on and let the Civics of this world sort themselves out. .

.. but the car was probably not visible to the lorry driver until the impact...

That is a different argument. If the lorry driver could not have seen the car on his left, then fair enough. But this is not the same as saying that he should not have done anything to avoid the collision even if he did see the car about to crash into him.

 

[Stratman]

From Driving Test Online

Okay, down the slip road we go. You should be feeling a little apprehensive just now, after all this is the deep end, no more paddling! You will see the slip road ending with a single dotted line going diagonally across it, tapering the slip road from the right until it ends in a point on the left. This is the edge of the motorway and is a "Give Way" line, though if we do it right it is unlikely we will actually have to "Stop and Give Way". We must though, as with all Give Way lines, realise that this may happen, and approach so we can stop if necessary.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Changed lanes? Are you serious?

Yes

 

[meeeb]

From the insurer's point of view the driver of the private vehicle was at fault.

But this is not to say that the lorry driver demonstrated good driving.

He could slow down and accommodate the pushy drivers.

The point is that lorries hate to slow down; they like to maintain speed due to the time it takes them to get back to cruising speed.

Or perhaps he was just not alert enough? We should not assume that he actually saw everything that the camera did.

Legally, the lorry driver is in the clear. But it does seem that a good driver could have avoided the crash.

I agree with the general sentiment of what you say. There is sometimes no black and white in accidents, sometimes both parties must take a portion of the responsibility and I'm sure an insurance company would have apportioned a small percentage to the lorry driver, although it has to be said that as in many cases involving dash mounted cameras we do not have the whole picture. It depends what the lorry driver said about what options were open to him.

To suggest that anyone has no responsibility to avoid a collision, as some people here seem to think, is preposterous, and if you want to allow someone to collide with your vehicle because he is inept or agressive, well good luck to you. To my mind these are the very people whom you have to avoid.

 

[Dieselman]

You are correct, we are in agreement...why so pedantic? Chill.

You and I are on the same planet...some of the others...

Having a long drawn out debate about how the lorry driver could possibly be at fault is madness.

 

[markjay]

You and I are on the same planet...some of the others...

No comment....

Having a long drawn out debate about how the lorry driver could possibly be at fault is madness.

I actually agree with that. The lorry driver is not at fault.

He is just potentially not a very good driver - i.e. if he could have avoided a collision and did not do so.

The Civic driver is clearly at fault here, but had he been more lucky and encountered a more experienced lorry driver then the Civic might have just gotten away with it.

Still, the lorrie driver gets the benefit of the doubt in my book. He might not have seen all that the camera saw, and be may not have noticed the Civic until it was too late.

 

[renault12ts]

Yes

Oh dear, that's what I thought.

Firstly we don't know if the lane to the right was empty, and , secondly, this would have constituted an emergency lane change...have you seen a large lorry execute an emergency lane change?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Oh dear, that's what I thought.

Firstly we don't know if the lane to the right was empty, and , secondly, this would have constituted an emergency lane change...have you seen a large lorry execute an emergency lane change?

You have already agreed that the lorry driver could have been bloody minded over the incident, I merely questioned whether he could have made some attempt to avoid the accident.

How can that be worth arguing over?

Surely you agree that the lorry driver should not simply plough into the car just because the car driver was 'wrong'?

I understood that lorry drivers were on a tight schedule so avoiding accidents would surely be high on their agenda. Maybe there was no trailer on the back in this case.