Renault Electric window problem.

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

My son`s 04 Renault scenic has an unusual problem with one of the rear electric windows. He had to make a 70 mile round trip today with his two young daughters ( one of them just 6 weeks old ) , and phoned me in a panic to say one of the rear windows opened by itself , and he could not get it to close . Told him to sit in the car and "close" the central locking twice. Sure enough the window closed . Told him to then remove the window fuse. He drove down the m5 with all window fuses removed , no problem. As soon as he got back in the car ,the window opened again. He went through the "reset" procedure , drove a couple of miles , same problem. Question is , how is any power getting through with the fuses removed? Is it likely to be a fault with the fuseboard ? Any ideas appreciated guys.

 

[brucemillar]

They may use a switched earth that is shorting somewhere. I am not sure how best to check that? Usual weak points are where the wires come through the doors/tailgate.

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[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

Thanks Bruce . Worst thing is I have had to lend my son the C240 until I get the Renault sorted.

 

[brucemillar]

Thanks Bruce . Worst thing is I have had to lend my son the C240 until I get the Renault sorted.

Ted on here is great with these issues. Maybe drop him a pm.

My Pajero uses switched earth for everything. Odd at first but easy when you get used to it. Most faults are at the hinges where wires run through. Has he spilt any drinks on the switches?

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[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

The car is out on our drive at the moment. just went to get the handbook out of the glovebox and it was soaking wet . The fusebox is close by , so I am beginning to suspect there may be damp/wet circuits . will have to check in the morning , but that may explain why there is still power getting to the window?

 

[Ted]

Thank you Bruce I did see this but fresh out of ideas.
The window(s) can still work if fuses are removed if another circuit such as comfort closing also accesses them.
Window motors are usually driven either as Bruce says, by a switched earth, where there is a feed the motor and one of two coils is energised by the switch being pressed or by the switch 'swapping over' the supply to the motor.
My guess fwiw - even though the fuse is removed, is a faulty switch - try prodding it to see if you can replicate the fault.
Could also be a fault with the current sense which stops or reverses the window if an obstacle is detected - or of course as Bruce has suggested a short on a switched earth circuit - try gently moving the harness where it goes through the 'b' pillar and into the door - gently being the word as this tends to pick up breaks and shorts best.

 

[markjay]

Had the very same thing with our 2005 Scenic II... I played around with the fuses (at the top of the glove compartment) but to no avail, eventually we Pxed it for the Kia... much more reliable. Sorry I cant help more...

 

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

Thank you Bruce I did see this but fresh out of ideas.
The window(s) can still work if fuses are removed if another circuit such as comfort closing also accesses them.
Window motors are usually driven either as Bruce says, by a switched earth, where there is a feed the motor and one of two coils is energised by the switch being pressed or by the switch 'swapping over' the supply to the motor.
My guess fwiw - even though the fuse is removed, is a faulty switch - try prodding it to see if you can replicate the fault.
Could also be a fault with the current sense which stops or reverses the window if an obstacle is detected - or of course as Bruce has suggested a short on a switched earth circuit - try gently moving the harness where it goes through the 'b' pillar and into the door - gently being the word as this tends to pick up breaks and shorts best.

Thanks Ted , presumably if I pull a wire from the switch it will temporarily prevent the window opening of its own accord? Or if I swap the wires to the other rear window switch , the fault should transfer? As you can see electrics are not my strong point !

 

[Ted]

Yes. If it is the switch, the fault should transfer.
Being pragmatic, if the car is getting on, as it is one of the rear windows, it may just be worth disconnecting the motor.

 

[Doodle]

The regulators on the Scenic are well known for being a steaming pile of substandard merde. A friend ended up replacing 3 in 5 years of ownership.

Opening on their own is usually the control box having failed, which means replacing the entire regulator as you can't get the control boxes separately. I think there might be a company that refurbishes them though.

 

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

Hmmm , think this is going to be a quick disconnect to the switch , and leave it there ! Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[brucemillar]

If water has got in? Then all bets are off, until you dry it out and find the cause of the leak. Probably a blocked scuttle drain or similar. I would try drying it out first before getting into any wallet surgery.

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[Auto-mobile]

Little oblong box screwed to the bottom of the regulator, suffers water ingress.

Get it reconditioned or disconnect it completely as they can catch fire.

 

[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

Disconnected the window motor . Just had to fork out for a new battery on his wifes car , and suspect I will also have to get an egr valve for it ( Seat Leon) .Beset by bloody gremlins at the moment . Wife just got back from shopping , W168 A160 automatic , car gone into limp mode , "f" on the dashboard display . Put OBD2 on , came up with 2 fault codes P0705 , Transmission range sensor A circuit PRNDL input , and P0443 Evaporative emission system purge control valve circuit. Reset the fault codes and seemed ok during a short test drive.
Oh for the days when you could set your points with a fag packet, use your girlfriends stocking for a fan belt, and use a coin for a fuse! Time for a beer or three.

 

[brucemillar]

I feel your pain here. Over the past couple of years I feel like I have been cursed by the automotive gods. At one point achieving the spectacular feat of having four cars immobile at the same time.

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[NOMONEYBUTAMERC]

Deja vu Bruce. A couple of years ago I bought my wife a Toyota Rav4.It was great for a few weeks until it developed a gearbox fault (later discovered they were predestined to fail at around 100k miles)Spent money on ecu etc. Got rid of it , bought her a Renault Scenic ( now owned by our youngest son and the subject of this thread), but after a few months she wanted another Rav4. Refused to get one and bought her a Freelander instead. Sorted a few minor issues and it was a lovely almost mint condition car. She then decided she no longer wanted a "high" car and after suffering a fall and breaking a rib , had trouble getting in and out of it. Bought her the A160 , now thats playing up. Not sure whether to bite the bullet and buy her a newer car , or give her the bullet !

 

[brucemillar]

Deja vu Bruce. A couple of years ago I bought my wife a Toyota Rav4.It was great for a few weeks until it developed a gearbox fault (later discovered they were predestined to fail at around 100k miles)Spent money on ecu etc. Got rid of it , bought her a Renault Scenic ( now owned by our youngest son and the subject of this thread), but after a few months she wanted another Rav4. Refused to get one and bought her a Freelander instead. Sorted a few minor issues and it was a lovely almost mint condition car. She then decided she no longer wanted a "high" car and after suffering a fall and breaking a rib , had trouble getting in and out of it. Bought her the A160 , now thats playing up. Not sure whether to bite the bullet and buy her a newer car , or give her the bullet !

I have discussed the same with Charles Morgan. Should I get rid of two cars and lease one new car? I just dither and faff about. I keep thinking 'this will sort it'. It rarely does.

My C55 is currently worrying my wallet with a MAF problem that developed with the car, on SORN, dry stored, and not having moved for a few months. I have elected not to mention this to Mrs M. No sense in getting her all excited. I also can't take her 'I told you so' looks.

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[Doodle]

18 months ago, I leased a brand new Renault to replace an ageing £400 Volvo S70 as my commuting car. From the beginning I've had repeated problems with noisy heating system, creaking tailgate, automatic lights that have no clue what they are doing, and an entertainment system that decides once you've finished your phone call, you don't get to listen to anything else for the rest of the journey.

It spent most of last month in the garage for a variety of reasons, culminating in a catastrophic electronic failure that lit the dashboard up like Blackpool illuminations.

I should have stayed with the bloody Volvo.

 

[brucemillar]

.....and there we have it. Every time I start to get close to going new I hear a tale similar to this ;^)

There is a great deal to be said about the devil you know.

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[Doodle]

I think most of the problems here stem from the word "Renault"

The other consideration is that the Volvo was not fault-free, but for a £400 car I couldn't care as long as it got me to work each day. If I'm paying good money for something new, I most certainly do.