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[Resolved] 124 Works - Kirkham Dispute

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He didn't. he posted it for public interest. he has no need for advice as he clearly knows what he needs and is pursuing legal redress at this time.

alfie07 said:
I would also like to state that I am making this post purely in the public interest, to enable other members to make an informed choice before taking their vehicle to this self acclaimed Mercedes Specialist.

but we are unable to make this informed choice with the details we've been given so far.
 
Is not the jist of it that OP paid a garage (on the forum's recommendation)a total of £2500 to mend their car, and their car is not longer usable, OP would appear to me to be down £2500 and the use of their car.

Would anyone be happy to be in this position?

I wouldn't be happy either .

However , sometimes you just have to be realistic , and try to move on from a difficult situation .

To my mind the easiest and least costly solution would be to try to obtain an engine from a breaker at minimal cost - although I agree it is a gamble , you can often obtain an excellent engine this way . Ideally , an accident damaged car with prior service history would be a good donor .

A bit of compromise is needed on both sides - maybe with the OP purchasing such an engine and Ian fitting it for him to draw a line under the affair .
 
A bit of compromise is needed on both sides - maybe with the OP purchasing such an engine and Ian fitting it for him to draw a line under the affair .

Sorry to not tow the line, but why should OP pay for anything?

They've already parted with £2.5k to end up with a car they cannot use, it's the garage that needs to come up with a proper solution, and quickly, as if this does go to court, with the strength of a less than favorable independent report, OP looks certian to win.
 
car had done 158000 miles on diagnostics comp test showed cyl 1 12psi 2 and 3 10psi 4 12 psi it was mr walker who sold me a full rebuild if the rebuild had been a success i would have a very nice motor at the door it doesnot matter to me that the rebuild cost more than i paid for the car

Are you sure about those figures, if so that engine was in serious trouble and extremely worn.

What are the actual problems that still exist now.?

I read about the oil leaks but they were inconsequential to the good running of the engine as they were on the unpressurised return to sump side of the oilways. I do note the head gasket appeared to have a leak, but I take it this was not a significant quantity as the oil level never dropped, and the engine had no problem generating sufficient oil pressure, as indicated by the oil pressure light.
 
Sorry to not tow the line, but why should OP pay for anything?

They've already parted with £2.5k to end up with a car they cannot use, it's the garage that needs to come up with a proper solution, and quickly, as if this does go to court, with the strength of a less than favorable independent report, OP looks certian to win.

But we don't know what, if anything, there is wrong with the engine and whether that is part of the rebuild work or not.
Going to Court complaining about oil leaks that have been rectified isn't going to get anywhere. If anything they would show that the repairer has honored their warranty and fixed the issues as appropriate.

Can you tell us what is wrong with the engine.?
 
But we don't know what, if anything, there is wrong with the engine and whether that is part of the rebuild work or not.
Going to Court complaining about oil leaks that have been rectified isn't going to get anywhere.

If it goes to court, the court will take one look at the report:

‘does not compare with an engine having undergone costly repairs’
‘as a result of its present condition, it is not advisable to run the vehicle as major consequential failure could result’.

Then look at the £2500 bill and in my view OP will win.

As an added bonus, the court *may* decide that OP is entitled to have the car repaierd, so the garage could find itself sponsoring a short motor, cams and fitting somewhere, as well as the £2.5k.

If I were the garage I'd have the car sent to Crewe for a short motor and cams, there's enough in the kitty to sponsor that, and at least that would draw a line under it and avoid litigation.

But that's just my view.
 
Sorry to be pedantic Nick but you missed this bit.

Can you tell us what is wrong with the engine.?

At present I don't know what is wrong, do you.?

It's no good talking about short engines if the bottom end is good on this one. Is the current issue noisy cams, smoke, leaks...??

Has the report been made available to Ian Walker so he can decide whether the problem falls under the scope of original work.?
 
Sorry to be pedantic Nick but you missed this bit.

At present I don't know what is wrong, do you.?

At this point, with the customer taking legal advise, there's really no point worrying about what's actually wrong with it, as all the court wil do is look at the report and base their judgement on that.

I would suggest that at this stage damage limitation is the main aim to concentrate on.
 
Personally I don't see the need to go to court as I'm sure the OP and Garage concerned can sort it out amicably amongst themselves. If it goes to court the only people who will win will be the lawyers :(

Exactly, going to court is the last thing either side really wants, no lawyers in the small claims court though.
 
Sorry to not tow the line, but why should OP pay for anything?

I would also have to ask 'Why should 124 Works pay for anything ?

From what I have read , Ian Walker has bent over backwards to honour his obligation to the customer , taking the car back at least twice for remedial work - even using camshafts from his wife's car ! He has offered an examination by a Mercedes main dealer and the opportunity to take the car to another specialist - both of these options not taken up by the customer .

The most significant reason for asking why Ian should pay anything at all is because the car has been worked on by a third party since Ian last saw it : Ian stated that the OP came and took his original camshafts back 9 weeks ago ; by the OP's own admission he has taken the car to 'another Mercedes specialist' .

With most places , as soon as you have your car worked on by a third party , any warranty will be null and void . Who is to say whether a fault existed before Ian worked on it , since , or only after someone else had a go at it ?

I see no mention of Ian's wife's camshafts having been returned , so presumably Ian's wife's car is now standing idle too ?
 
Because OP's parted with £2500, his cars sorned, and he's had to buy another one.

Sorry not to sing the 124works song, but that's alot of money to end up with a dead car.

As far as I can read the situation , Ian's 'door is still open' for the customer to take his car back yet again for resolution ; it is the OP who CHOOSES not to .

I have no connection with either party , no bias towards either of them , but do feel that Ian has given a better account of what has happened so far .
 
Exactly, going to court is the last thing either side really wants, no lawyers in the small claims court though.

Again not wanting to be picky but we should deal with facts

No such thing as a small claims court anymore! just a simplified procedure for dealing with low value claims through the county court.

You can defend yourself at a small claims hearing with a lawyer so they can be present

If the OP procedes via the small claims track and the garage disputes the claim then the first step would be to refer them both to the small claims mediation service to agree a deal.

If this fails then the case will come before a judge the final hearing should be simple and not involve complex points of law, it is also worthy of note that you cannot provide expert witnesses on the small claims track unless the judge gives his express permission to do so. If he does then it is likely he will insist both parties use the same independent expert.

Not an easy one this but as they say jaw jaw is better than war war :)
 
Any resulting court case could go either way .

If the OP wins , Ian could end up having to fix the car ( or pay for someone else to do it ).

If it goes the other way , Ian could well counter with a claim for defamation , based on the transcript of this very thread !

Best avoided by amicable resolution - in the interests of both parties involved .
 
The AA report seals the fate of a case, honestly.

Now is the time to get moving to avoid a case.

No court will rule based on the Available AA report as it is biased, if both parties had commisioned the AA to do a report then different story. But the garage in this case do not have access to the report comissioned by the OP, which also means they are being deprived of challenging it, they also do not have access to the vehicle to commission their own so again are unable to defend themselves due to the action of the OP, so it would not stand up.

If it went as far as court then from the facts we have I would expect the Judge to order a full inspection of the car by an expert and this does not include the AA or RAC it would be a fully qualified motor engineer working for one of the professional consultancy firms out there.

But as said many times there are not enough facts in this thread upon which to base any opinion what so ever
 
......But the garage in this case do not have access to the report comissioned by the OP, which also means they are being deprived of challenging it, they also do not have access to the vehicle to commission their own so again are unable to defend themselves due to the action of the OP, so it would not stand up......

Not only that , but the vehicle has been through the hands of at least one other 'specialist' (not named by the OP) who may or may not have replaced the original camshafts which were taken back by the owner - so its present condition may not be the same one as it was in when it left 124works .
 
The cost and value of the car(s) is irrelevant. A job to perform work to an engine was requested and paid for and there have been problems.

Nothing else should be taken into consideration.

As far as I can see the problems have been oil leaks which have been rectified.
Apparently there has been a report which condemns the engine for an as yet undisclosed reason.

All we need to know is what is the reason, then we can decide whether it's a problem connected to the work performed or not.

I'll try once again.

What actually happens if the engine is run and why is it unservicable.?
 
The cost and value of the car(s) is irrelevant. A job to perform work to an engine was requested and paid for and there have been problems.

Nothing else should be taken into consideration.

I agree .

My point was just that if the car was bought very cheaply it may well have been a tired and neglected example that had a lot of issues .

Besides a badly worn engine , which is acknowledged by both parties , there was mention by the OP of gearbox slippage and 'smoke coming from the back' which could have been any number of things .

As you say , we have very few specifics to go on - Ian has provided some information on what was found and what was done - the OP has only really talked of some symptoms and £££ spent - as you rightly say , we have very little info on the current state of the car . The 'independent report' would make interesting reading - but I don't suppose it is going to be shared here :mad:
 
I agree .

The 'independent report' would make interesting reading - but I don't suppose it is going to be shared here :mad:

Neither party has one, and as Jaymek pointed out right at the beginning AA reports are designed to scare the customer so there is no come back on the AA. Most of the ones I've read have been really commical. Once read an AA report about a Volvo S60 T5 repair that got messy, the car was then subsequently Inspected by a true independent engineer. You would not have believed they were talking about the same car.

Sometimes the AA don't know their a**e from there elbow, as is often demonstrated by the capabilities (or not) in roadside repair;)
 
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