This will most likely have been one of the Renovo range of products - they are all excellent.
Seeing an E320 Cabriolet on Saturday....
This will most likely have been one of the Renovo range of products - they are all excellent.
The owner of the E320 Cab has just informed me that the car has developed a misfire.
During his 30 mile one way commute he noticed that when the car was stopped at a red light in park with the foot brake on the revs dropped to about 400 & then went up to about 12-1400, then settled back to normal idle. It did this once in 30 miles and seems pefectly normal the rest of the time.
Knowing we were coming up he took it to the indy he uses, Merc-Care in Pudsey, W. of Leeds. The plugged it into their diagnostic machine & it came back with something wrong with the "dwell angle" which means, they told him, the ECU was fooked. I think this indy replaced the wiring loom for him in 2007 & redid the head gasket about two months ago.
Is this a misfire?
Is a wiring loom ECU problem likey to develop so long after the new loom was fitted? Is the new loom breaking down & starting to fry the ECU?
Is it possible something ECU wise was damaged during a head gasket job?
The E320 owner hunted around on the internet & says http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/index.html can fix a HFM VDO ECU for about £200, which he'll do.
Opinions on any of this?
During his 30 mile one way commute he noticed that when the car was stopped at a red light in park with the foot brake on the revs dropped to about 400 & then went up to about 12-1400, then settled back to normal idle. It did this once in 30 miles and seems pefectly normal the rest of the time.
Knowing we were coming up he took it to the indy he uses, Merc-Care in Pudsey, W. of Leeds. The plugged it into their diagnostic machine & it came back with something wrong with the "dwell angle" which means, they told him, the ECU was fooked. I think this indy replaced the wiring loom for him in 2007 & redid the head gasket about two months ago.
Is this a misfire?
Is a wiring loom ECU problem likey to develop so long after the new loom was fitted? Is the new loom breaking down & starting to fry the ECU?
Is it possible something ECU wise was damaged during a head gasket job?
The E320 owner hunted around on the internet & says http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/index.html can fix a HFM VDO ECU for about £200, which he'll do.
Opinions on any of this?
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Does not sound like a misfire - that would be ignition related and more likely to be there all the time. Uneven idle is more likley the fuel system or the electronics controlling the fuel system. I am not sure that it points to the main ECU necessarily. First suspect would have to be the loom - but also the OVP relay? Could also be the fuel metering unit - needs cleaning?
grober
MB Master
something wrong with the "dwell angle"
This is a slightly puzzling statement since the term DWELL ANGLE normally refers to the number of degrees of distributor "rotor arm rotation" the points are closed? Since the E320 doesn't have a distributor or points I wonder if they know what they are doing? Could be a defective coil pack or HT LEAD since these are not part of the engine wiring loom as normally defined. A completely new wiring loom should last for years. Sorry to say this but its probably about the right time interval for a new cylinder head gasket to blow again if the head wasn't skimmed properly when it was replaced last.
Today my friend & I went to look at this car. It is lovely, clearly cherished, looked after by a meticulous owner who has spent money doing all servicing on schedule & repairs as needed. He bought it from Charles Ironside less than 2 years & 12,000 miles ago for a figure in the high teens.
He's taking a severe beating on the sale of it, losing so much money that cynical me is suspicious. He's spent nearly £3k on CHG, loom replacement, servicing etc & now anticipates possibly as much as another £500 on ecu repairs.
To straighten out the details first, which I mis-reported above.
The headgasket was redone with a skim in 2007 & the wiring loom was redone with a new MB loom in October '08. The misfire has devoloped recently since / because of the loom problem. The owner spoke to Merc-Care (who did both these jobs) & they allegedly told him it was OK to drive the car with a damaged loom while awaiting the replacement part, which of course damaged his VDO HFM ecu. Strangely, Merc-Care serviced the car after the loom replacement & noticed nothing amiss with the ecu.
To say the owner is unimpressed with Merc-Care, who he has used for 15 years, would be a gross understatement. So unimpressed he says he wants out of the Cabriolet now at a big loss, never wants another Merc & has already bought a new VW.
I drove the car & it seems OK-ish if you pootle around but if you kick down or accelerate hard from a standing start it runs poorly, is unwilling to rev, has no power, is lumpy, clearly running badly & obviously has a problem. The more I drove it the worse it seemed to get.
The owner is sending the ECU to http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/index.html who say they've seen loads of these, can fix it & will guarantee their repair for two years. BBA-reman do list the ecu as one they offer repairs on, albeit for more money then Carelect. http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/DetailedProduct.aspx?DetailedProduct=1198
1) Can these HFM ecus be succesfully repaired & will the repair last?
2) Is any further damage being done to the engine / new loom / car by driving it with a fried ecu?
3) Can I simply plug in another VDO HFM with the same part number to solve the problem? Merc-Care have told the owner he might get a duff unit, in which case he's no worse off than he is now & would return it to the breaker for a refund. I already have the correct unit. It's my understanding that any HFM VDO ecu numbered 021 & lower is plug & play & not coded to any individual car.
Advice & opinions from those in the know most welcome.
TIA.
Edit: I should clarify I haven't spoken to Merc-Care & I'm reporting what the car owner has told me. This is his version of events & whether it's 100% accurate or not I cannot say.
He's taking a severe beating on the sale of it, losing so much money that cynical me is suspicious. He's spent nearly £3k on CHG, loom replacement, servicing etc & now anticipates possibly as much as another £500 on ecu repairs.
To straighten out the details first, which I mis-reported above.
The headgasket was redone with a skim in 2007 & the wiring loom was redone with a new MB loom in October '08. The misfire has devoloped recently since / because of the loom problem. The owner spoke to Merc-Care (who did both these jobs) & they allegedly told him it was OK to drive the car with a damaged loom while awaiting the replacement part, which of course damaged his VDO HFM ecu. Strangely, Merc-Care serviced the car after the loom replacement & noticed nothing amiss with the ecu.
To say the owner is unimpressed with Merc-Care, who he has used for 15 years, would be a gross understatement. So unimpressed he says he wants out of the Cabriolet now at a big loss, never wants another Merc & has already bought a new VW.
I drove the car & it seems OK-ish if you pootle around but if you kick down or accelerate hard from a standing start it runs poorly, is unwilling to rev, has no power, is lumpy, clearly running badly & obviously has a problem. The more I drove it the worse it seemed to get.
The owner is sending the ECU to http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/index.html who say they've seen loads of these, can fix it & will guarantee their repair for two years. BBA-reman do list the ecu as one they offer repairs on, albeit for more money then Carelect. http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/DetailedProduct.aspx?DetailedProduct=1198
1) Can these HFM ecus be succesfully repaired & will the repair last?
2) Is any further damage being done to the engine / new loom / car by driving it with a fried ecu?
3) Can I simply plug in another VDO HFM with the same part number to solve the problem? Merc-Care have told the owner he might get a duff unit, in which case he's no worse off than he is now & would return it to the breaker for a refund. I already have the correct unit. It's my understanding that any HFM VDO ecu numbered 021 & lower is plug & play & not coded to any individual car.
Advice & opinions from those in the know most welcome.
TIA.
Edit: I should clarify I haven't spoken to Merc-Care & I'm reporting what the car owner has told me. This is his version of events & whether it's 100% accurate or not I cannot say.
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74merc
Active Member
What I'm surprised about is that this car was bought for top money from Ironside yet the loom and the CHG had not been replaced. Makes you wonder what the premium these guys charge is for.
grober
MB Master
The problem with taking a car with problems back to the outfit that has just done an expensive repair on it is that if they find a related fault which is down to their inadequate workmanship/advice they may be reluctant to acknowledge its very existence since that may have financial implications!
One or more of the coil packs may be faulty which has caused the initial ECU damage? Some folks advocate changing the coil packs with the ECU as a precaution anyway. As far as ECU repair is concerned its normally the output stages that fail due to overheating/too large a current draw. These can be repaired if the components involved can be correctly identified/characterised. If however the fault lies deeper and other internal ECU components have been stressed its probably a throw away job. If the repaired ECU is warrantied then you should have nothing to worry about. The major consideration with these cars is body/hood/ seats /trim condition since that will affect its value more than anything. Mechanicals/electrics can always be solved with money although you should always take the condition of the major powertrain components into account ( Engine and gearbox) in pricing the car. If the present owner is willing to get the car running correctly before selling then why not let him do that before making an offer?
One or more of the coil packs may be faulty which has caused the initial ECU damage? Some folks advocate changing the coil packs with the ECU as a precaution anyway. As far as ECU repair is concerned its normally the output stages that fail due to overheating/too large a current draw. These can be repaired if the components involved can be correctly identified/characterised. If however the fault lies deeper and other internal ECU components have been stressed its probably a throw away job. If the repaired ECU is warrantied then you should have nothing to worry about. The major consideration with these cars is body/hood/ seats /trim condition since that will affect its value more than anything. Mechanicals/electrics can always be solved with money although you should always take the condition of the major powertrain components into account ( Engine and gearbox) in pricing the car. If the present owner is willing to get the car running correctly before selling then why not let him do that before making an offer?
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Thanks Graeme,
We've already struck a deal conditional on the ECU problem being fixed.
I agree with you on taking it back to the place that did (sort of) the initial repair. I'm looking into getting a near by MB specialist to inspect the repair.
Do you know if another ECU of the same part number could be plugged in & work?
Body / hood / seats /trim condition is just beautiful.
We've already struck a deal conditional on the ECU problem being fixed.
I agree with you on taking it back to the place that did (sort of) the initial repair. I'm looking into getting a near by MB specialist to inspect the repair.
Do you know if another ECU of the same part number could be plugged in & work?
Body / hood / seats /trim condition is just beautiful.
The problem with taking a car with problems back to the outfit that has just done an expensive repair on it is that if they find a related fault which is down to their inadequate workmanship/advice they may be reluctant to acknowledge its very existence since that may have financial implications!
You saw that coming!
An update.
The ECU came back fixed with a 2 year warranty & a note taped to it telling Merc-Care to install a new coil before plugging it in. I had spoken to the headboy at Merc-Care while the ECU was away being repired & told him it was my understanding that a new coil would be required. He was non committal. BTW Merc-Care had sold the owner 3 new coils already trying to get to the bottom of this.
They didn't bother with a new coil, installed the ECU & told the owner to come & get the car. He drove about two miles then turned around and brought the car back to them with the same problem. The fault code is the same as before it was fixed. I spoke to the ECU repairer who is adamant the unit was fixed & tested & working properly before being sent out. I believe him.
The sale is off, £100 deposit being returned & the car owner has been told to get in touch if & when it's fixed properly and ready for an independent inspection.
My inclination is to walk away & forget about this car, even if the ECU problem is rectified. Merc-Care also did a head gasket & skim in 2007 & a new MB loom on this car in October & I'm worried that their work may result in problems down the road.
I find it worrying that I seem to know more about this than the MB specialist independent charged with fixing it.
Chattonmill
MB Enthusiast
Walk away now!!! Don't turn round, don't look back
peterg1965
MB Enthusiast
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My GL has been called in for an Urgent safety recall!
sorry, I meant to start a new thread!
sorry, I meant to start a new thread!
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aka$h
MB Enthusiast
In my opinion Merc Care are cowboys. I bought a 54 S320 CDI for my uncle a few months back. It had been maintained by these guys since 25k, its now on 85k and has just had a new gearbox fitted. I put it down to bad luck, but by the sounds of your expirences I think may be not.
Out of interest, what figure did you settle on, assuming the car was all OK?
There was a very nice looking one on ebay recently in ruby red, which is one of my favourite colours on a late c124.
Out of interest, what figure did you settle on, assuming the car was all OK?
There was a very nice looking one on ebay recently in ruby red, which is one of my favourite colours on a late c124.
aka$h
MB Enthusiast
This is the one, only got to £4100 last time, but reserve was not met.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-MERCEDES-E320-SPORTLINE-CONVERTIBLE-AUTOMATIC-FSH_W0QQitemZ260327453795
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-MERCEDES-E320-SPORTLINE-CONVERTIBLE-AUTOMATIC-FSH_W0QQitemZ260327453795
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