Sheppey Crossing Crash - 130 Vehicles involved

[Deleted member 65149]

Were you there too?

Or were you overhead watching it all unfold?

Stop being so silly. Next you'll be telling us that we can't possibly know it's going to rain tomorrow because we're not there yet! Or you'll accuse us of assuming that every living person in the world is breathing, even though we've not met most of them. Yes, we could be wrong - but I seriously doubt it.

 

[brucemillar]

Good job they didn't close a lane. Some on the forum would have accelerated to get to the front of the "now" empty lane before cutting in front of the accident.

Apparently that is what empty lanes are for.

Remember folks. Get in lane signs are for non MB drivers.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Yes, we could be wrong - but I seriously doubt it.

I've not denied the point you're trying to make, you just seemed so sure as to what caused it that I thought yourself and Dryce must have been present, how else could you be so certain?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I've not denied the point you're trying to make, you just seemed so sure as to what caused it that I thought yourself and Dryce must have been present, how else could you be so certain?

Only as certain as we are that tomorrow will be Friday. But we may be wrong because there's still a few minutes to go during which the world may come to an e

 

[brucemillar]

There were two separate "incidents" on the same carriageway. Both heading off the island Southbound. Witnesses blame speed and lack of lights on cars.

As somebody mentioned earlier. Local MP argued at the time the bridge was being built that this would happen but was "poo poohed" lack of funds meant no lights or hard shoulder on the bridge. For those who have not seen the bridge. It is a massively high hump back structure and has seen collisions in good visibility, being on a 70mph dual carriageway.

The car transporters are all coming from the huge UK car import pounds on the island where most new cars coming into the UK are delivered too.

Sadly. Speed does seem to have been the main factor in this. Rather like the M5 incident in smoke. Drivers say they were engulfed in zero visibility as they crested the bridge.

Given the obvious carnage it is amazing that at this time nobody was killed. Lets hope it remains that way.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Sadly. Speed does seem to have been the main factor in this. Rather like the M5 incident in smoke. Drivers say they were engulfed in zero visibility as they crested the bridge.

It was undoubtedly too high a speed for the conditions that caused the carnage. How many were going too fast we'll never know. I came up against possibly similar conditions in June when driving up the B500 in the Black Forest. This is well known as a drivers' road, particularly amongst motorcyclists who regularly exceed 100mph along there. But it was raining when we were there and all too rapidly we headed up into the clouds. Visibility reduced to a few feet at best so we slowed to about 10mph. Fortunately everyone else did as well. The point is that prevailing conditions warned us about the possibly impending very limited visibility so there was no need to slam on the anchors to reduce speed to a safe level.

It was very foggy here in dead flat Peterborough yesterday morning, so presumably it was at least a bit foggy either side of the Sheppey Crossing so drivers should have been taking care. If the drivers could see the top as they approached then I could understand why some may have been going too fast. But I wonder if they really could see it. Were some not looking sufficiently ahead? If they couldn't see that it was clear they must have been going too fast. Apart from its size, the Crossing is no different to a hump backed bridge where we all know we have to slow because we can't see what's on the other side.

 

[gerrym]

My quote to which you responded was:
If you were as observant as you should be when driving you will note that I only apportioned blame to those who were unable to brake within the limit of their visibility. If they didn't see the stationary vehicle in time they were clearly driving too fast for the conditions. You don't have to have been there to see the blatantly obvious. I haven't at any time said that everyone involved was to blame. There have been reports by some of those involved that they managed to stop in time, but were then hit from behind. They were not to blame in any way. Unfortunately for them in particular there were evidently many who didn't stop in time, else the number of vehicles involved would have been just a handful at most.

This reminds me of the incident many years ago when I was following another car that suddenly braked for no apparent reason. I stopped behind without any problem. The Mini behind me also stopped. The Audi behind that didn't; he pushed the Mini into the back of my car. As the car that had originally braked drove off the three of us were left, with the Mini as the now significantly shortened filling in our sandwich. The Audi driver was unharmed and stormed round to berate me for having braked heavily thereby causing the incident. The Mini driver was trapped in his car (unharmed) because his door wouldn't open, so couldn't contribute to the "discussion". I tried to explain why I had stopped but Mr Audi wouldn't listen. Then another guy came up to us and said he'd been driving the car that I was following and that he had to brake hard because a dog ran out in front of him. Mr Audi then changed tack to "Well, you know how it's harder to stop in time when you're at the back of a line of heavily braking vehicles". To which I responded, "Yes I know. Which is why in those circumstances I maintain an even larger gap!" Mr Audi's insurance had to pay for everything.
.

I have never met anyone in my that has never lapsed concentration at the wheel. I am guessing you would buck that trend?

 

[flango]

I have never met anyone in my that has never lapsed concentration at the wheel. I am guessing you would buck that trend?

No there's at least 2 of us

Cause of accident easy Too fast, too close, fog appears drivers panic, hit brakes, not enough room to the vehicle in front inevitable happens.

Driver education is the key people need to be taught what to do when they lose visibility, as far as I'm aware this is something that is never covered in UK driving tuition. Yet the loss of visibility happens quite regular particularly in Uk coastal regions.

 

[sjmaxwell]

I spoke to a friend who crosses the bridge each day and she said that the fog would be clear and then suddenly very thick which probably added to the danger coupled to the fact that on cost grounds the bridge has no hard shoulder nor lights and is set at national speed limit for a dual carriageway. Lets hope all those injured make a full recovery

 

[brucemillar]

As a nice note on the subject. A lorry driver seeing the ensuing carnage develop. Pulled his truck across the carriageway and stopped further cars from getting onto the bridge. many describing actions as heroic.

No. Nobody crashed into his truck.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

On a lighter note, that I hope is OK because thankfully nobody died, this is what someone wrote on Yahoo news in response to a lady's mildly erroneous comment:

Kate, what is an "arctic" lorry? It that one that is very cold, or, more likely, are you someone who is so desprately thick that you do not know it is actually called an arciculated lorry, and their breaking distances are - wait for it - EXACTLY THE SAME. People like you really should not be allowed to voice an opinion.

I emboldened the words that made me and many others laugh. It's not only here that people in glass houses ...

Many of the responses to that were also amusing, although less so, in that they also contained mistakes. Such as:

If your going to correct somebody then maybe you should check what you have written yourself. Otherwise there`s a better than 100% chance you could end up looking a little bit silly ;o)

I've not highlighted the offending word here

There were, of course, also vastly opposing opinions on the relative stopping distances of fully laden 44T trucks and cars - with everyone certain that they were right.

 

[brucemillar]

In the Local Kent news paper one "eye witness" was quoted as saying that "you couldn't see a thing. I was doing 5mph and people were still overtaking me with no lights on"

So zero visibility, driving at 50mph but complaining about others Hmmmmmmm. That works.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Justification enough for those horrible DRL's, with the exception of Audi's.

 

[gerrym]

No there's at least 2 of us

Cause of accident easy Too fast, too close, fog appears drivers panic, hit brakes, not enough room to the vehicle in front inevitable happens.

Driver education is the key people need to be taught what to do when they lose visibility, as far as I'm aware this is something that is never covered in UK driving tuition. Yet the loss of visibility happens quite regular particularly in Uk coastal regions.

I am not sure if you are being serious. You really have never had a car journey where your attention is on the road 100% of the time, all of the time?

All I can say is that is remarkable, it is not a skill I have come across before. The closest I have seen is professional racing drivers but even they get it wrong sometimes due to momentary lapses of concentration.


Cheers

Gerry

 

[martyz]

No there's at least 2 of us

Cause of accident easy Too fast, too close, fog appears drivers panic, hit brakes, not enough room to the vehicle in front inevitable happens.

Driver education is the key people need to be taught what to do when they lose visibility, as far as I'm aware this is something that is never covered in UK driving tuition. Yet the loss of visibility happens quite regular particularly in Uk coastal regions.

All we know is the cars were moving prior to the accident,not what speed they were travelling,and how you can say what caused it is beyond me,good guess though.We will see what the investigation team make of it in due course.

Driver education; Don't assume anything,what you see is not always what you think it is.

 

[flango]

I am not sure if you are being serious. You really have never had a car journey where your attention is on the road 100% of the time, all of the time?

All I can say is that is remarkable, it is not a skill I have come across before. The closest I have seen is professional racing drivers but even they get it wrong sometimes due to momentary lapses of concentration.


Cheers

Gerry

Yep being serious a car is a lethal weapon at 70 mph you are travelling at over 100ft per second never forget that, its more real than 70 mph.

Always use the SAS principle Space And Speed, Manage the space around you, see and be seen, leave a cushion of space around you front, rear and both sides, ALWAYS have an escape route. Manage your speed appropriately drive to the conditions. The greatest risk of a collision is always in front of you so pay particular attention to that space. Statistically the greatest risk of an accident is in fog so act accordingly read the road and conditions well ahead of you, that way you won't get any surprises and if you do by following the principles above you will have a way out of danger.

I used to be a professional racing driver but don't know any that have made mistakes through lapses of concentration, most make mistakes due to information overload which they can't process fast enough to make a judgement call

 

[martyz]

Just been listening to a guy being interviewed on the radio that was involved in the incident
"visibility was good,vehicles in front had come to a stop for no apparent reason" he goes on to say that he managed to pull up in time," the worse bit was being sat listening to screeching tyres from behind and was eventually hit".No mention of fog there.

In fairness that is just one account of what in their opinion happened.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Just been listening to a guy being interviewed on the radio that was involved in the incident
"visibility was good,vehicles in front had come to a stop for no apparent reason" he goes on to say that he managed to pull up in time," the worse bit was being sat listening to screeching tyres from behind and was eventually hit".No mention of fog there.

In fairness that is just one account of what in their opinion happened.

If people can't pull up in time, no matter what the visibility, it's nearly always because they're going too fast for the conditions. Those conditions could be that they're not concentrating on the road and what's happening around them, it could be that their reaction times are slow, it could be that their tyres or brakes are inferior, it could be that they're too close to the vehicle in front, it could be that they're approaching the brow of a hill (or bridge). Whatever the conditions, if they can't pull up in time they're going too fast. Too fast may be 10mph or 100 mph. The precise speed is immaterial - it's their speed relative to the conditions pertaining to them at the time that's important.

 

[davidjpowell]

If people can't pull up in time, no matter what the visibility, it's nearly always because they're going too fast for the conditions. Those conditions could be that they're not concentrating on the road and what's happening around them, it could be that their reaction times are slow, it could be that their tyres or brakes are inferior, it could be that they're too close to the vehicle in front, it could be that they're approaching the brow of a hill (or bridge). Whatever the conditions, if they can't pull up in time they're going too fast. Too fast may be 10mph or 100 mph. The precise speed is immaterial - it's their speed relative to the conditions pertaining to them at the time that's important.

If everyone else is driving at 50mph, and they are doing 10mph, they may be driving too slow and get rear-ended.

I think driving in poor road conditions in the uk is shocking, with far too many people not recognising that they should switch their lights on and adjust their seed accordingly. I also wonder how many people realise that daylight running lamps are front only.

 

[martyz]

If people can't pull up in time, no matter what the visibility, it's nearly always because they're going too fast for the conditions. Those conditions could be that they're not concentrating on the road and what's happening around them, it could be that their reaction times are slow, it could be that their tyres or brakes are inferior, it could be that they're too close to the vehicle in front, it could be that they're approaching the brow of a hill (or bridge). Whatever the conditions, if they can't pull up in time they're going too fast. Too fast may be 10mph or 100 mph. The precise speed is immaterial - it's their speed relative to the conditions pertaining to them at the time that's important.

How many times do you fully focus on your driving,I mean turn phone,radio,sat nav,off,no passenger to talk to and properly read the road? not very often I would have thought, unless like me you are having a fast solo drive.These days we take cars for granted,jump in them and self auto pilot takes over until we have a fright, then we apply more concentration until our confidence is renewed.We should all drive fully focused but in reality most of the time we are on auto pilot with distractions.