SL60 or SL600 or ...? Confused

[Peter Grayson]

Hi there

I'm new to this forum (or, rather, returned after a long absence - it's a brilliant resource and I've been kept busy recently browsing the seemingly endless array of advice, opinion, facts etc).

I've always wanted an R129 and am now in a position to buy one. The problem is, I'm confused as to which model and would be really grateful for some advice from those who know these things. I will keep the car garaged and probably do only 3,00miles a year in it. I am drawn to the SL60 as I have had big, fast V8s before (and my daily driver is an S500) but am not quite 'getting' why it seems to attract something of a price premium over the SL600 (and, indeed, late model S500).

I understand the rarity point but is that it? Seems it's lighter than the SL600 and therefore more nimble. I remember almost buying one about 10 years ago but it felt too noisy for me at the time. It pulled brilliantly but I felt a bit detached from the driving experience - maybe that's a R129 characteristic or maybe just the one I drove.

Anyway, I'm just about to start to look around and wondered if anyone could offer answers to these questions:

1. where's the best place for me to find a R129 buyer's guide?

2. there's a car coming up for auction which I might view but, as an auction car, won't be able to drive or check the hood. On a worst case basis, what's the cost of a replacement soft top and mechanism, as I guess I would have to factor that into the price. Also, I'd need to take a view on the other mechanicals given that a drive won't happen.

3. the 6.0 V8 is based on the M119 engine - correct? That engine seems pretty unburstable from what I've read and experienced (I had a 1990 500SEL years ago which went like a train and was very reliable). Does anyone have any problems to watch out for?

4. how reliable (or otherwise) is the active suspension on the later cars?

5. what am I likely to have to pay for a well-maintained SL60 with up to 120k miles? How does that compare to prices for the SL600 and last edition (Silver Arrow?) SL500?

6. Am I right in thinking that condition and maintenance are more important than mileage for a car that's going to be used, rather than preserved in a collection?

7. I like the panoramic roof - if I find a good car without it, how much is it to buy a replacement and get it painted in the right colour?

8. I also like the original AMG wheels - how much are these to buy if the car has had different wheels fitted?

9. In terms of other options, are Xenons worth holding out for or are modern replacement 'normal' bulbs pretty good

10. Do main dealers do 'classic' rates for servicing and, if so, do they know the cars well enough, or am I better off finding a local specialist, if one exists?

Thanks for reading this far and I look forward with interest to hearing people's views. I'm sure I'll think of other questions so bear with me!

Peter

 

[Howard]

Nice low mileage one for sale by a member on here .

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/clas...-sl60-amg-high-specification-low-mileage.html

 

[dinoy]

sl60 is amg modified v8 model 100++% better than v12 sl600

 

[DSLiverpool]

Dans sold it Howard - deservedly so, it was immaculate.

Op why not search the forum then thin down your questions, your asking a lot of obvious and easily obtained info.

 

[Darrell]

sl60 is amg modified v8 model 100++% better than v12 sl600

Learn something new every day.

 

[IanA2]

Dans sold it Howard - deservedly so, it was immaculate.

Op why not search the forum then thin down your questions, your asking a lot of obvious and easily obtained info.

Are you in the 60 club Howard?

 

[IanA2]

sl60 is amg modified v8 model 100++% better than v12 sl600

Learn something new every day.

And he's 100% correct

 

[IanA2]

1. where's the best place for me to find a R129 buyer's guide?

Plenty on the net, lots of info on here

2. there's a car coming up for auction which I might view but, as an auction car, won't be able to drive or check the hood. On a worst case basis, what's the cost of a replacement soft top and mechanism, as I guess I would have to factor that into the price. Also, I'd need to take a view on the other mechanicals given that a drive won't happen.

That car looks ok, but it's a bit of a leap in the dark.


3. the 6.0 V8 is based on the M119 engine - correct? That engine seems pretty unburstable from what I've read and experienced (I had a 1990 500SEL years ago which went like a train and was very reliable). Does anyone have any problems to watch out for?

Not really I've had mine 7 years without issue. Bullet proof engines.

4. how reliable (or otherwise) is the active suspension on the later cars?

Don't have it, wouldn't have it. Others differ.

5. what am I likely to have to pay for a well-maintained SL60 with up to 120k miles? How does that compare to prices for the SL600 and last edition (Silver Arrow?) SL500?

Siiver Arrow is, a mon avis, is a overpriced gimmick. A good 60 will range from 25K to 30K, Others are asking more, don't know if they'll achieve their asking price. SL600's are considerably cheaper, and there's a reason for that.

6. Am I right in thinking that condition and maintenance are more important than mileage for a car that's going to be used, rather than preserved in a collection?

Yup, these engines will take you to the moon. Condition is all.

7. I like the panoramic roof - if I find a good car without it, how much is it to buy a replacement and get it painted in the right colour?

About 1.5K to buy one, not much to repaint as there's not a lot of paint on it.

8. I also like the original AMG wheels - how much are these to buy if the car has had different wheels fitted?

Personally I wouldn't bother, they are very expensive and difficult to clean. IMHO AMG IV's look best. Others differ.

9. In terms of other options, are Xenons worth holding out for or are modern replacement 'normal' bulbs pretty good.

I don't think you'll be holding out for Xenons. There are only 49 RHD cars, and if you buy on condition that will limit the numbers available. Rarely more than a couple for sale at any one time and prices are going north.

10. Do main dealers do 'classic' rates for servicing and, if so, do they know the cars well enough, or am I better off finding a local specialist, if one exists?

Depends where you are. Many excellent independent specialist around. I wouldn't trust a main dealer with mine. They know nothing.

 

[Peter Grayson]

Ian - thanks for your replies - very helpful

DSLiverpool - sorry, I was being a bit lazy. I've now read quite a lot more about R129s and hadn't realised quite how much useful information, advice and opinion was on here.

Narrowing down my questions following some of that reading, the main thing I'd like to know is the worst case cost for sorting a completely knackered hood - from what I can see a good quality new hood is around £1,400+. What I can't really work out is the cost of repairing/replacing a knackered hydraulic mechanism. Looks like that's mainly labour - £750-1,000 should get me a long way with all but the nastiest of problems - agree?
Then there's the hood ECU at £400
So that's up to £3k all in. Have I got that right?

Thanks again

Peter

 

[BTB 500]

4. how reliable (or otherwise) is the active suspension on the later cars?

Adaptive damping (ADS) was an option from 1989 onwards and was only ever standard on the V12 SL600. It's more reliable (and cheaper to fix) than later M-B systems such as ABC (used on the R230 SL). The only common failure is the accumulators ("spheres") which have a finite life (as shock absorbers on a normal car do) since they contain a flexible diaphragm. They typically last 10-15 years so most ADS cars would have had the spheres replaced by now - if not set aside £900 or so as they'll need doing at some point. If you look at a car with ADS obviously check it raises/lowers OK, drives well, and there are no warning lights on the dash. If the spheres have gone the suspension will feel hard and the car will have a "boat like" motion going over any kind of road undulations at speed.


8. I also like the original AMG wheels - how much are these to buy if the car has had different wheels fitted?

A lot. The original 3-piece 17" AMGs fitted up to 1996 or so are a bit "fussy" but the 2-piece 18" ones really suit the car. A lot of older cars have replicas fitted as the real ones can go for £1500 a set in good condition (if you can find some).


10. Do main dealers do 'classic' rates for servicing and, if so, do they know the cars well enough, or am I better off finding a local specialist, if one exists?

Some do. I use M-B Guildford for routine servicing (to keep the full M-B service history going) - they give 40% off labour and 15% off parts (and MOTs for £10). They are genuinely pleased to see the car, let me provide my own Mobil 1 (from Costco), and never push to do extra work. M-B Basingstoke, Dorchester, Hindhead, Poole and Salisbury are part of the same group and give the same discounts:

Mercedes-Benz Loyalty Discount on Servicing | Sandown Group

 

[IanA2]

Ian - thanks for your replies - very helpful

DSLiverpool - sorry, I was being a bit lazy. I've now read quite a lot more about R129s and hadn't realised quite how much useful information, advice and opinion was on here.

Narrowing down my questions following some of that reading, the main thing I'd like to know is the worst case cost for sorting a completely knackered hood - from what I can see a good quality new hood is around £1,400+. What I can't really work out is the cost of repairing/replacing a knackered hydraulic mechanism. Looks like that's mainly labour - £750-1,000 should get me a long way with all but the nastiest of problems - agree?
Then there's the hood ECU at £400
So that's up to £3k all in. Have I got that right?

Thanks again

Peter

£3K would probably cover it all and maybe have some change.

What would concern me however is what else is wrong. If someone has let the car go, perhaps because they can't afford it, what else has not been done?

 

[BTB 500]

Narrowing down my questions following some of that reading, the main thing I'd like to know is the worst case cost for sorting a completely knackered hood - from what I can see a good quality new hood is around £1,400+. What I can't really work out is the cost of repairing/replacing a knackered hydraulic mechanism. Looks like that's mainly labour - £750-1,000 should get me a long way with all but the nastiest of problems - agree?
Then there's the hood ECU at £400
So that's up to £3k all in. Have I got that right?

I would personally walk away from a car where the hood had obvious problems - they are complex but generally pretty reliable. The only common issue is that the plastic windows crack after 10-15 years, having those replaced is not too bad ... £300-400.

 

[IanA2]

4. how reliable (or otherwise) is the active suspension on the later cars?

Adaptive damping (ADS) was an option from 1989 onwards and was only ever standard on the V12 SL600. It's more reliable (and cheaper to fix) than later M-B systems such as ABC (used on the R230 SL). The only common failure is the accumulators ("spheres") which have a finite life (as shock absorbers on a normal car do) since they contain a flexible diaphragm. They typically last 10-15 years so most ADS cars would have had the spheres replaced by now - if not set aside £900 or so as they'll need doing at some point. If you look at a car with ADS obviously check it raises/lowers OK, drives well, and there are no warning lights on the dash. If the spheres have gone the suspension will feel hard and the car will have a "boat like" motion going over any kind of road undulations at speed.


8. I also like the original AMG wheels - how much are these to buy if the car has had different wheels fitted?

A lot. The original 3-piece 17" AMGs fitted up to 1996 or so are a bit "fussy" but the 2-piece 18" ones really suit the car. A lot of older cars have replicas fitted as the real ones can go for £1500 a set in good condition (if you can find some).


10. Do main dealers do 'classic' rates for servicing and, if so, do they know the cars well enough, or am I better off finding a local specialist, if one exists?

Some do. I use M-B Guildford for routine servicing (to keep the full M-B service history going) - they give 40% off labour and 15% off parts (and MOTs for £10). They are genuinely pleased to see the car, let me provide my own Mobil 1 (from Costco), and never push to do extra work. M-B Basingstoke, Dorchester, Hindhead, Poole and Salisbury are part of the same group and give the same discounts:

Mercedes-Benz Loyalty Discount on Servicing | Sandown Group

Four and Eight. As I said others differ

Bill, you seem to have a good experience with the main dealer, is there someone there who actually knows 129"s?

I wouldn't let my local main dealer within 100 yds of mine.

 

[BTB 500]

Bill, you seem to have a good experience with the main dealer, is there someone there who actually knows 129"s?

I wouldn't let my local main dealer within 100 yds of mine.

I don't think there's much on the R129 that needs specialist knowledge other than the hood, and possibly ADS if the car has that. M-B Guildford have been fine for routine servicing and minor fixes (not that there have been many in the last 10 years - some instrument panel bulbs, a leaking valve in the headlight washer pipe, radio mast, driver's door strap).

I have a garage relatively nearby that specialises in ADS (SS Motors in Weybridge), so I did get them to do the spheres on my car a couple of years ago. It's a pretty straightforward job though and I think the dealer would actually have been OK for that.

The only other thing I've had done was replacing the plastic windows in the hood. Don't think any garage (dealer or indi) would handle that - I went to D: Class in Woking.

 

[Howard]

Are you in the 60 club Howard?

No but I'd like to be !

I'm in the 4.3 club lol

 

[IanA2]

Dans sold it Howard - deservedly so, it was immaculate.

Op why not search the forum then thin down your questions, your asking a lot of obvious and easily obtained info.

No but I'd like to be !

I'm in the 4.3 club lol

Ah sorry...It was Dave's post that confused me

 

[Doodle]

For routine stuff the main dealer will be fine, but for the more involved problems you'll probably want to engage a specialist who knows 129s. Even the very newest ones are 15 years old, plugging in the computer for an answer doesn't always work, and sad to say your average main dealer tech no longer has the practised diagnostic eye.

 

[dan1502]

As well as the engine, the SL60s benefit from the nicest wheels, AMG suspension and the AMG bodykit. SL500s (and 350s for that matter) with those options are quite rare and generally fetch a premium. When I bought mine the difference for an excellent condition SL500 with those options and my SL60 wasn't all that much but the gap is widening as the interest in and demand for SL60s seems to have risen rapidly over the last couple of years which has resulted price increases. That said I think Ian's £25,000 to £30,000 is perhaps a bit misleading. As far as I am aware Avantgarde sold a red, one owner, 28,000 mile example with a good range of options (but no Designo options) for £30,000. Others have gone or been for sale for a fair bit less than £20,000. It all depends on mileage, options and condition.

What is appealing is the rarity. I am led to believe there were or are only 29 1996-1998 UK RHD models and amongst those there is good and bad. So if you have a good one the rarity should protect against depreciation.

I was wary of ADS but it gives a lovely ride. The spheres had been replaced on mine and I had the system bled and calibtrated. I had no problems. I used to raise it and lower it each time I washed the car as I believe regular use can help avoid issues with the valve block etc.

And one point to bear in mind is how tall you are. I was advised that 6'3 is about the maximum for these which is how tall I am. I would suggest 6'2 is probably the limit as although it was ok I always wanted to move the seat just a tiny bit further back which I couldn't do without the seat back tilting forward. I could never quite get as comfortable as I would like.

Mine should be gone on Thursday. I won't say who to as yet in case they don't want me to and as the deal hasn't completed yet. I've had a couple more calls with serious interest since which I've had to turn away - I wish I had a couple more to sell!

 

[IanA2]

That said I think Ian's £25,000 to £30,000 is perhaps a bit misleading.

Not quite sure why you say that. Here are the only four cars for sale (if they still are) that I can find:

Mercedes sl60 AMG for sale - Cars & Vans for Sale

All four are £30K or over. In fact isn't one of them yours?

You say: "Others have gone or been for sale for a fair bit less than £20,000. It all depends on mileage, options and condition."

Are we still talking 60's here? I follow the few sales that there are and have never seen one go: "..for a fair bit less than £20,000."

The last 60 that I am aware of that went for under £20K was this one, at auction (Bonhams) four years ago:

"1991 Mercedes-Benz AMG SL60 Convertible Chassis no. WDB1290661F027241 Engine no. 11996012014776
Estimate £14,000 - £18,000
Sold for £16,100 inclusive of Buyer's Premium"

 

[dan1502]

Advertised prices aren't generally the prices they have sold at. The highest price I've known one sell for was the red one I mentioned at £30,000 which was also the most recent other than mine and was very low mileage, one owner with a good range of owners and from a dealer.

You can't really base it on currently advertised prices as most haven't sold and I think have been for sale for quite a long time.

Given the serious interest I have had in mine I probably could have got very close to asking but as it is I accepted what I believe to be a fair offer which I am not going to disclose.

When looking for mine it was considered at the top end of prices at the time and I have spent several thousand pounds improving it further. It is very high specification and probably a one off.

Around two and a half years ago when I was looking I could have bought one for less than £11,000 but I considerd the work required to be too much for me. It was bought and done up and I believe though on sale for higher sold for a reasonable sum less than £20,000.

Jay bought his for quite a lot less too and has since spent a lot of time and money improving it to the point that it's now immaculate and hence worth a lot more than he paid.

I remember what you offered me yours for at the time as well.

There were a couple of others around the time, one of which at least was a bit ropey.

Prices have risen strongly but I would still argue the range is probably from significantly less than £20,000 to about £30,000 depending on condition, mileage, options etc.

There is more I could add but I don't want to disrespect the confidence of others.

It will be interesting to see what the silver one goes for at auction but I can't really judge without knowledge of the condition.

The point of my post was to give what I believe to be a more balanced view of pricing of SL60s.