Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[markjay]

People with attitudes like that wind me up.

My wife is out the house at 5am. Does she not merit street lighting to make her journey to work safer?

Again, agreed. Streetlights should be on at all times during the night. And the same goes for Motorways.

 

[clk320x]

People with attitudes like that wind me up.

Switching off street lights at night does not increase car crashes and crime

Reduced street lighting in England and Wales is not associated with road traffic collisions or crime, according to research by UCL and the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.

www.ucl.ac.uk

Are you going to discount this study similarly to the ones on ULEZ?

 

[Darrell]

Switching off street lights at night does not increase car crashes and crime

Reduced street lighting in England and Wales is not associated with road traffic collisions or crime, according to research by UCL and the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.

www.ucl.ac.uk

Are you going to discount this study similarly to the ones on ULEZ?

So you’re showing me a report that was put together in 2015 that was collected from data from 2000-2013. The data also came from only 62 out of 174 local authorities.

The U.K. hasn’t changed since then has it.

 

[clk320x]

So you’re showing me a report that was put together in 2015 that was collected from data from 2000-2013.

Well the crime rate in London has remained relatively stable since, despite a slight increase but this can’t be attributed to street light changes lol.

 

[Darrell]

Well the crime rate in London has remained relatively stable since, despite a slight increase but this can’t be attributed to street light changes lol.

View attachment 149624

Are these crimes that have been reported??

 

[clk320x]

Lol

Interesting seeing that so many people are saying the crime rate has risen due to the budget cuts made by the Tories during their tenure.
Perhaps this isn’t quite true and the cuts were worthwhile.

Best not get political as it’ll get the thread closed, but sometimes cuts are needed when another party has massively f’d up before.

 

[Darrell]

Best not get political as it’ll get the thread closed, but sometimes cuts are needed when another party has massively f’d up before.

Going back to your bar chart, is it based on reported crimes or crimes that actually took place?

 

[markjay]

It makes people feel safer, and this in itself is important (even the logic says that crime figures don't support it).

 

[Darrell]

It makes people feel safer, and this in itself is important (even the logic says that crime figures don't support it).

According the the stats there have been very few crimes in our local area.

 

[clk320x]

Going back to your bar chart, is it based on reported crimes or crimes that actually took place?

From ONS - The number of police recorded crimes, percentage change from previous year and rate per 1,000 population by offence group, firearms, knife and sharp instrument, fraud, child sexual abuse and child exploitation and anti-social behaviour offences by Police Force Area

How would there be data on the number of crimes which actually took place if they haven’t been reported? Baffling question. Only Gang members etc wouldn’t report crime to the police, any normal civilian (who are the ones at risk from the supposed streetlight reduction) would obviously report being attacked/robbed etc…

 

[markjay]

From ONS - The number of police recorded crimes, percentage change from previous year and rate per 1,000 population by offence group, firearms, knife and sharp instrument, fraud, child sexual abuse and child exploitation and anti-social behaviour offences by Police Force Area

How would there be data on the number of crimes which actually took place if they haven’t been reported? Baffling question.

I think that the crime reporting rate is linked to the police actually doing something about it.

If you know that the police won't do anything if your phone is mugged off you or your car gets broken into, then you probably won't bother reporting it.

But if you know that they'll take it seriously and investigate it, and that there's a reasonable chance that the perpetrators will be caught and your stolen property will be returned to you, then you're more likely to report it.

 

[Darrell]

From ONS - The number of police recorded crimes, percentage change from previous year and rate per 1,000 population by offence group, firearms, knife and sharp instrument, fraud, child sexual abuse and child exploitation and anti-social behaviour offences by Police Force Area

How would there be data on the number of crimes which actually took place if they haven’t been reported? Baffling question. Only Gang members etc wouldn’t report crime to the police, any normal civilian (who are the ones at risk from the supposed streetlight reduction) would obviously report being attacked/robbed etc…

We’ve been victims of crime and I know scores of others who also have. We don’t bother reporting it because it’s a waste of time.
We’re not gang members and I actually find that remark rather insulting tbh.

As an example.
My daughter was attacked in the street 5 years ago. She knew the attackers because they were older girls from her school. She also knew where they lived. She had witnesses.

Being upstanding pillars of the community we duly reported it to the Police.

What do you think the Police did?

 

[clk320x]

We’ve been victims of crime and I know scores of others who also haven’t. We don’t bother reporting it because it’s a waste of time.
And we’re not gang members either.

Interesting - how can you for example claim off insurance for a new phone etc without a crime number though?

 

[clk320x]

I think that the crime reporting rate is linked to the police actually doing something about it.

If you know that the police won't do anything if your phone is mugged off you or your car gets broken into, you probably won't bother reporting it.

But if you know that they'll take it seriously and investigate it, and that there's a reasonable chance that the perpetrators will be caught and your stolen property will be returned to you, then your more likely to report it.

But you’d need a crime ref no. for an insurance claim for a mobile phone etc?

Also - just out of interest which areas in inner London are actually having this policy implemented? I’ve driven through London Bridge, Westminster etc late at night and streetlights have been on.

 

[clk320x]

As an example.
My daughter was attacked in the street 5 years ago. She knew the attackers because they were older girls from her school. She also knew where they lived. She had witnesses.

Being upstanding pillars of the community we duly reported it to the Police.

What do you think the Police did?

I’m sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter, I’m going to guess they probably did nothing. (Which is ridiculous imo)

 

[markjay]

But you’d need a crime ref no. for an insurance claim for a mobile phone etc?

Only if the item stolen from you is covered by insurance. May items aren't, or are under the excess on the policy.

 

[Darrell]

I’m sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter, I’m going to guess they probably did nothing. (Which is ridiculous imo)

It is ridiculous and it’s why so many crimes (that might be petty in the eyes of the police) don’t get reported.
At the end of the financial year it certainly makes the books look good though.

 

[Darrell]

But you’d need a crime ref no. for an insurance claim for a mobile phone etc?

Also - just out of interest which areas in inner London are actually having this policy implemented? I’ve driven through London Bridge, Westminster etc late at night and streetlights have been on.

You’ve driven through the London Bridge area and Westminster!!


Which parts of Westminster??

 

[clk320x]

You’ve driven through the London Bridge area and Westminster!!


Which parts of Westminster??

What’s funny?

I’m not a taxi driver so don’t know all the road names by heart.

But I regularly drive between N.London to near LBH/Shard. That involves passing Paddington, Hyde Park, Westminster Bridge etc.

Even the dodgy looking back-roads south of the Shard (where the NCP is) have street lights on well into the early hours.

 

[clk320x]

Only if the item stolen from you is covered by insurance. May items aren't, or are under the excess on the policy.

Fair enough - but I honestly can’t see street lighting having an impact on this. Walking around in the early hours brings some level of risk, and even with lighting when there’s barely anyone around to help it’s easy for a thief to get you.