Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[TeddyRuxpin]

So, in March 2023 we're only 5 months away. Despite all the fussing, does anybody think that there’s any realistic chance that this won’t happen?

 

[ALFAitalia]

They certainly enforce them around here. Someone at work got a fine/points for 24 mph in one.

 

[neilrr]

Regardless whether the 20mph speed limit is legal or not until someone challenges it in court it will continue to be enforced.

 

[markjay]

Use of 20mph zones 'usually advisory', police chief admits

Giles Orpen-Smellie, Tory Police and Crime Commissioner for Norfolk, made the admission despite a third of local authorities having rolled out the measures in recent years.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A police chief has admitted 20mph speed zones in built up areas are 'usually advisory' and many cannot be enforced.

Yes, but the issue is that the average motorist has no way of knowing if a 'Traffic Order' has been issued for that particular stretch of road or not... it would therefore be foolhardy to assume that all 20mph zones are unenforceable.

 

[markjay]

They certainly enforce them around here. Someone at work got a fine/points for 24 mph in one.

A colleague at work got two tickets, for going 21mph and the other for 23mph. A neighbour got one for 23mph as well.

 

[ALFAitalia]

21 is bit harsh.....any half decent Magistrate would let you off with a caution for that ....unless its right outside the school at kicking out time perhaps.

 

[W1ghty]

So, in March 2023 we're only 5 months away. Despite all the fussing, does anybody think that there’s any realistic chance that this won’t happen?

I think it won’t happen in 5 months . My guess is the local councils which are taking this to court will yield some results and maybe more pressure will pile on other councils to join them .
The cost of living crisis won’t have gone by then so forcing “poor” people running older cars to all change them will become politically toxic .
My guess will be a year or two’s delay going straight to road charging .
I am normally wrong on most things though .
My car is a non ULEZ compliant diesel .

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Sorry, I was talking about ULEZ not the 20mph zones

 

[markjay]

21 is bit harsh.....any half decent Magistrate would let you off with a caution for that ....unless its right outside the school at kicking out time perhaps.

He got the speed awareness training.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Regardless whether the 20mph speed limit is legal or not until someone challenges it in court it will continue to be enforced.

Enforced "curiously."

Are the police in London harvesting the working class,

while Yorkshire Rozzers have other priorities?

 

[markjay]

Maybe, but in darkest SW London, I've only encountered one "friend of a friend" who has picked up a 20mph fine since their introduction.

Perhaps an mbclub member has the stats?

As I said, a colleague at work got two tickets on the A1, for 21mph and for 23mph. A neighbour got a ticket for doing 24mph on the A41.

These are the cases that I am aware of, all in North London.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As I said, a colleague at work got two tickets on the A1, for 21mph and for 23mph. A neighbour got a ticket for doing 24mph on the A41.
These are the cases that I am aware of, all in North London.

Coffee break here, so I toddled off and hunted down some numbers. I still stand by "our" experience that it doesn't get enforced, but the stats from the Met show that significant numbers of perhaps commuters, perhaps youngsters, are getting their wallets frisked

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If Mr Khan is picking up £140 million at the moment from the current ULEZ zone (an area that includes the home of 4 million people)

Two questions:

how much is he intending to pick up from the ULEZ extension? (A billion, maybe?)

how many votes can be bought with this income?

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

How much does it cost to implement and enforce each year, though? I'm guessing a forum full of people that like and own Mercedes cars know not to just look at income generated. Is there any way to find out?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

How much does it cost to implement and enforce each year, though? I'm guessing a forum full of people that like and own Mercedes cars know not to just look at income generated. Is there any way to find out?

£140 million to install the new ANPR cameras, allegedly.

Down from an initial budget of £160 million. Petty cash capital budget for taxing the working class for a few decades.

These will start by taxing eight year old diesels, but will swiftly move on to all ICE, then hybrids and then even EV’s

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

If that's what they say, fine, but it's about the truth. If it's costing £140m and they're spending £140m, it's not really about a short term cash grab.

It's more about either a) actually about improving the air/health of Londoners or b) establishing a London wide ANPR system so that they can set up their long term goal of taxing per mile once EVs are in the majority. Or both. Or neither.

Or other reasons!

 

[st13phil]

It's more about either a) actually about improving the air/health of Londoners or b) establishing a London wide ANPR system so that they can set up their long term medium term goal of taxing per mile once even while EVs are in the majority minority.

Just to help out those still confused by the motives of Mr Khan

 

[Ted]

Looks like the peasants are revolting. (Thats a ULEZ camera)

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

They're going to need security cameras pointing at the ANPR cameras to stop them being vandalised... and then maybe more cameras pointing and those cameras, and then

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If that's what they say, fine, but it's about the truth. If it's costing £140m and they're spending £140m, it's not really about a short term cash grab.
It's more about either a) actually about improving the air/health of Londoners or b) establishing a London wide ANPR system so that they can set up their long term goal of taxing per mile once EVs are in the majority. Or both. Or neither. Or other reasons!

Absolutely NOT, Sir !!

They're spending £140 million to extend the coverage to all of Greater London. One off capital expenditure.

Current annual income, JUST within the South and North Circular, is £140 million a year. Year after year after year.

The £140 million is being spent, as a one off cost, to pull in at least £500 million a year, and I suspect more like a billion, year after year, after year.

Sorry to be pedantic, it's the scars of a decade of accounting lectures.

(And if anyone says "but we'll scrap all those 2014 diesels so it'll go away," sorry but they'll move the goal posts and the start charging petrol, hybrids, and simple EV usage by mile or by area."

As Ken Livingstone showed during his time, Votes don't just buy themselves. You have to find the money somewhere.


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