Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[clk320x]

But it just as busy after the CZ darts as well.

Like I said I see it everyday. 3 of my close friends are black cab drivers they say the same.

Have you noticed it?

Darrell, I take your points, but if you look at the statistics they all show a marked reduction in congestion since the CCZ introduction. It may not necessarily be visible on your daily commute - but if the scheme was removed I’d argue there would be a significant increase in traffic through the zone.

 

[clk320x]

Back to ULEZ, look at the rates of compliance before/after the schemes introduction. A massive change - so clearly it does work by encouraging people to change vehicle due to financial benefit.

 

[Darrell]

Darrell, I take your points, but if you look at the statistics they all show a marked reduction in congestion since the CCZ introduction.

Statistics don’t ever get massaged do they.

I’ve got first hand experience of it. Come and see for yourself.

 

[Darrell]

Back to ULEZ, look at the rates of compliance before/after the schemes introduction. A massive change - so clearly it does work by encouraging people to change vehicle due to financial benefit.

Of course people will change but the costs are huge.

 

[Tonygw]

Are you suggesting that the congestion charge doesn’t act as a deterrent to people driving in? Would there be more or less cars in the zone if CCZ was scrapped?

Look at the statistics of pre/post CCZ introduction traffic levels between 2002-2006.

Yep that's what I am suggesting Statistics are statistics and look nice on a power point or chart. The world is full of them, its also full of reality which doesn't always reflect the numbers

The reality is London is extremely congested.. So you get good quality congestion. If people need to drive in London they just pay and drive, I don't think it deters many people, its just another tax to pay..

Same as many couriers factor in the cost of the parking fines they WILL get when loading or unloading, they park where ever they like just to do their job...

ULEZ is unlikely to make the slightest bit of difference to peoples health, and lets be honest there are more issues affecting peoples health in London than the reasonably clean air.

But it will generate a healthy pot of cash..

 

[clk320x]

The reality is London is extremely congested.. So you get good quality congestion. If people need to drive in London they just pay and drive, I don't think it deters many people, it’s just another tax to pay.

But the ULEZ has proven to work by the % of compliant cars massively increasing…?

Look into the health effects of PM2.5 inhalation. ULEZ has reduced this by a significant percentage.

What I don’t understand is why there is so much hate for a scheme that results in better air quality/less risk of respiratory issues for people in the area.

Yes it’s not perfect, but any improvement in air quality is a good thing.

Unfortunately people don't like that they have to pay for a compliant car. That’s the reality.

 

[clk320x]

But it will generate a healthy pot of cash..

It won’t if you change to a compliant vehicle or use alternative transport…

 

[Darrell]

It won’t if you change to a compliant vehicle or use alternative transport…

That’s when they’ll use the cameras for pay as you drive.

 

[clk320x]

Statistics don’t ever get massaged do they.

I’ve got first hand experience of it. Come and see for yourself.

I drive into the CCZ a few times a week, but in my opinion reference backed studies are more reliable than individuals observations during small time slots in one area of the zone.

 

[clk320x]

That’s when they’ll use the cameras for pay as you drive.

This is all just conspiracy at this point though and if they introduced such a scheme then the cameras would go up pronto regardless of ULEZ.

 

[Darrell]

This is all just conspiracy at this point though and if they introduced such a scheme then the cameras would go up pronto regardless of ULEZ.

We shall see.

 

[clk320x]

We shall see.

Indeed.

 

[Darrell]

Indeed.

Something like this perhaps

Sadiq Khan proposes journey charge for motorists in London | London | The Guardian

Mayor says air pollution and climate crisis are issues of ‘social justice’ in capital and across the globe

amp.theguardian.com

 

[clk320x]

Something like this perhaps

Sadiq Khan proposes journey charge for motorists in London | London | The Guardian

Mayor says air pollution and climate crisis are issues of ‘social justice’ in capital and across the globe

amp.theguardian.com

Wow - I imagine there will be big privacy concerns there if his plan is to log each cars route etc.

 

[esscee]

Maybe those affected by this ULEZ ought to reflect on low voting during the mayoral election. You get what you may or may not have voted for. Come next mayoral election, more ought to vote instead of whinging after the event and not liking what policies are introduced. Local and mayoral elections tend to have low turnouts, so if you don't like ULEZ then make sure you vote next year against those that introduced/endorse it.

 

[Darrell]

Maybe those affected by this ULEZ ought to reflect on low voting during the mayoral election. You get what you may or may not have voted for. Come next mayoral election, more ought to vote instead of whinging after the event and not liking what policies are introduced. Local and mayoral elections tend to have low turnouts, so if you don't like ULEZ then make sure you vote next year against those that introduced/endorse it.

Totally agree but I’ve got an idea that if a Tory gets in he/she won’t reverse it. It’ll be too much of an earner.

 

[poormansporsche]

Maybe those affected by this ULEZ ought to reflect on low voting during the mayoral election. You get what you may or may not have voted for. Come next mayoral election, more ought to vote instead of whinging after the event and not liking what policies are introduced. Local and mayoral elections tend to have low turnouts, so if you don't like ULEZ then make sure you vote next year against those that introduced/endorse it.

Non residential business owners don't get a vote.

 

[markjay]

Totally agree but I’ve got an idea that if a Tory gets in he/she won’t reverse it. It’ll be too much of an earner.

I don't know what a Tory mayor would do, but just to say that all the options are on the table, and there's even a precedent: Boris Johnson reversed Ken Livingstone's western extension to the Congestion Charge zone soon after being elected.

 

[Darrell]

I don't know what a Tory mayor would do, but just to say that all the options are on the table, and there's even a precedent: Boris Johnson reversed Ken Livingstone's western extension to the Congestion Charge zone soon after being elected.

I knew somebody would bring that one up. One of my black cab driver mates mentioned it a while ago when we were talking about it but I think I was living in Greece when it happened.

 

[markjay]

For the record, personally I am in favour of ULEZ, and if the cameras will also be used for road charging, that's fine with me as well.

As for privacy concerns.... well, certainly, the handful of people who have no mobile phone, no Internet at home, no bank cards, an old car that is not 'connected', and never drive on roads with ANPR, will be disadvantaged if ULEZ cameras are introduced in areas they drive though. But for anyone else... you'll be naive to think that a few more cameras on our roads will make any difference to the massive amount of information collected about you all day, every day.