Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[Darrell]

No, it’s open to all with a non compliant vehicles with a valid MOT as of a couple of weeks ago. Doesn’t help the presumably thousands of people who weren’t eligible 3 weeks ago and lost out. Shambles.

Shambles or embarrassing backtrack by Kahn? Aren’t they the same?

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

What clk320x meant (if I understand correctly) is that suggesting that ULEZ is just a money grabbing scheme thinly veiled as an 'air quality improvement project' (evil Khan and his henchmen are giggling at the mention of this), is, in fact, a conspiracy theory.

Yes, because the government and people in power have never lied to the public before and any idea that they might not be 100% transparent had to be cloud cuckoo land conspiracy nonsense…. please.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Shambles or embarrassing backtrack by Kahn? Aren’t they the same?

I don’t care about Khan’s perspective or image - from the perspective of all the Londoners who played along and tried their best to change their vehicles and lost out, it’s a shambles.

 

[Will]

The expansion to the whole of Greater London/the M25 (which is what most people are complaining about) was only announced Nov 25th 2022, during a huge cost of living crisis when people were struggling to heat their homes. That's only 9 months - you think that's 'plenty of time'?

It was on the cards well before that, the previous expansion (N/S circular) was already tabled 4+ years ago when I last changed cars - and one of the reasons I opted for a compliant one. The consultation period for the new zone ended over a year ago.

The date was fixed nine months ago, how long does it take to swap a car?

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

It was on the cards well before that, the previous expansion (N/S circular) was already tabled 4+ years ago when I last changed cars - and one of the reasons I opted for a compliant one. The consultation period for the new zone ended over a year ago.

When? That was the first I'd heard of it and I'm 'into cars' and stay in London a lot. If I haven't heard of it... what are we saying people should be experts on the TFLs emissions and air quality strategy for the next 4+ years? Again, we're not talking about the North/South Circular here...

My father only got a letter from TFL to notify him about the expansion and his non-compliant car in May 2023 from what I'm aware. I'll double check with him to see if he received anything prior to that.

The date was fixed nine months ago, how long does it take to swap a car?

During a cost of living crisis? From the awesome cars you own it seems likely that you're able to live well (congrats, you have a great three car garage there), but things aren't so simple when you're deep in an overdraft, can't afford heating, food prices are insane and fuel is up 50%.

In any case, it kicks in in a few hours. Can't wait to breathe in that sweet sweet clean air. Congrats everybody!

 

[clk320x]

What clk320x meant (if I understand correctly) is that suggesting that ULEZ is just a money grabbing scheme thinly veiled as an 'air quality improvement project' (evil Khan and his henchmen are giggling at the mention of this), is, in fact, a conspiracy theory.

Pay-by-mile isn't a conspiracy theory - it's been on the cards for a number of years now.

Yes you’re spot on.

 

[clk320x]

I didn’t know that you were such an advocate for clean air.

Comparing reducing toxic pollutants in the air to fast food reduction is just silly in my opinion.

 

[clk320x]

During a cost of living crisis? From the awesome cars you own it seems likely that you're able to live well (congrats, you have a great three car garage there), but things aren't so simple when you're deep in an overdraft, can't afford heating, food prices are insane and fuel is up 50%.

In any case, it kicks in in a few hours. Can't wait to breathe in that sweet sweet clean air. Congrats everybody!

This is where peoples views differ.

It seems that your opinion is that because some can’t afford to change cars (despite schemes being introduced to help such as the scrappage scheme), policies introduced which have at base a good idea; to improve air quality, shouldn’t happen and instead others should have their lives shortened…

Others (including myself) disagree, and suggest that any improvement to air quality is a good thing. When in reality changing to a less harmful car can be done for no cost using the scrappage scheme anyway, and it’s not a necessity to go out and spend £50k on an EV to achieve an improvement in NoX/PM2.5 levels.

Anything else to add?

 

[Will]

When? That was the first I'd heard of it and I'm 'into cars' and stay in London a lot. If I haven't heard of it... what are we saying people should be experts on the TFLs emissions and air quality strategy for the next 4+ years? Again, we're not talking about the North/South Circular here...

My father only got a letter from TFL to notify him about the expansion and his non-compliant car in May 2023 from what I'm aware. I'll double check with him to see if he received anything prior to that.



During a cost of living crisis? From the awesome cars you own it seems likely that you're able to live well (congrats, you have a great three car garage there), but things aren't so simple when you're deep in an overdraft, can't afford heating, food prices are insane and fuel is up 50%.

In any case, it kicks in in a few hours. Can't wait to breathe in that sweet sweet clean air. Congrats everybody!

For sure I remember looking at seven seaters when I was changing my previous estate S212 4+ years ago and I was well aware of the previous expansion even then. Regardless of legislation people have been aware of diesels being bad news health wise for a lot longer than that.

I realised I was going to have to spend more than I ideally wanted for a family car but it’s been pretty reliable, mainly just the depreciation cost to consider which is nowhere near as bad as many newer cars anyway.

I don’t really comment on mine or other’s finances but I can assure you cars are very cheap to run compared to children - if I had to drive an older car I would happily do so. I think I’ve owned/driven 50+ cars over years from old bangers to new daily drivers.

Is it the choice/standards think that people oppose here? As said already you can buy compliant cars for £1k so I don’t really see the affordability side of things.

I need to update my profile, the 190E went a couple of years back but I don’t drive my GL or 911 daily anyway (911 has hardly been used at all in recent years anyway)

I still don’t understand the timescale thing - how long do you think people realistically needed to swap their car? And that’s after it was well publicised and expected following previous expansion from the original (CC/central London) zone. Even the lorries have had the LEZ for years before this in outer London too.

I don’t know but 9 months seems okay - you can’t delay something forever just because a minority are unhappy about it?

 

[markjay]

Yes, because the government and people in power have never lied to the public before and any idea that they might not be 100% transparent had to be cloud cuckoo land conspiracy nonsense…. please.

From the logic perspective, the question isn't if the government has never lied to public (of course they have), instead the question is if the government has never told the truth to the public, which some seem to assume.

 

[markjay]

The Ulez countdown: Londoners have a year to ditch old polluting cars

A £12.50 a day charge will affect 350,000 motorists from next October when the Ultra Low Emission Zone is expanded

www.theguardian.com

That's from 3 years ago regarding the previous expansion. Motorists were given 12 months notice. I don't remember too many people complaining. So why now?

 

[Will]

The Ulez countdown: Londoners have a year to ditch old polluting cars

A £12.50 a day charge will affect 350,000 motorists from next October when the Ultra Low Emission Zone is expanded

www.theguardian.com

That's from 3 years ago regarding the previous expansion. Motorists were given 12 months notice. I don't remember too many people complaining. So why now?

I’m certain it was expected well before that though, even if not finalised. Certainly I was aware of it over four years ago when I last changed cars - just seen this from June 2018, over five years ago.

Mayor: Ultra-Low Emission Zone to expand up to North & South Circular

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, today confirmed that the capital’s Ultra-Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) will be expanded.

www.london.gov.uk

How long do people really need to prepare?

 

[Darrell]

How long do people really need to prepare?

These examples are for the ULEZ up to the North and South Circular and not the ULEZ extension being discussed here.

 

[Will]

These examples are for the ULEZ up to the North and South Circular and not the ULEZ extension being discussed here.

I know that, the point is that the original zone has already expanded and was expected to expand well before 9 months ago as recently mentioned in this thread.

It’s not just a London thing, as pointed out they have this in many smaller cities around the country and plenty of other countries too.

Anyone who really thinks change relative to pollution in cities wasn’t going to happen is in denial.

 

[clk320x]

What I don’t get about the ‘affordability’ argument is that you can buy a ULEZ compliant petrol for £1k or even less… and there’s a £2k scrappage scheme? So even if you owned an older car worth say £500, you can get £2k and buy a ULEZ car?

Another scenario is if you owned for example a 2013 W212, you can sell that privately to someone who lives out of London and still get a fairly decent price, with which you can buy a ULEZ complaint car?

I’m struggling to see where the affordability argument comes from? Can someone explain?

 

[Darrell]

I know that, the point is that the original zone has already expanded and was expected to expand well before 9 months ago as recently mentioned in this thread.

It’s not just a London thing, as pointed out they have this in many smaller cities around the country and plenty of other countries too.

Anyone who really thinks change relative to pollution in cities wasn’t going to happen is in denial.

I didn’t think it was going to be expanded because there are so places in London that are situated outside the North Circular are almost the countryside.

 

[ToeKnee]

1675 posts and has any one of those posts made any one in here change there mind on their views of ulez, for or against? The whole thread goes back and forth......

 

[Will]

I didn’t think it was going to be expanded because there are so places in London that are situated outside the North Circular are almost the countryside.

Can you imagine the arguments and confusion if it was only expanded in certain specific little areas though?

 

[Darrell]

What I don’t get about the ‘affordability’ argument is that you can buy a ULEZ compliant petrol for £1k or even less… and there’s a £2k scrappage scheme? So even if you owned an older car worth say £500, you can get £2k and buy a ULEZ car?

If you owned say a 2010 W212, you can sell that privately to someone who lives out of London and still get a fairly decent price, with which you can buy a ULEZ complaint car?

I’m struggling to see where the affordability argument comes from? Can someone explain?

What about a plumber in a 2015 Euro 5 van that now needs to change up to a Euro 6 van of the same condition, spec, mileage etc? That’s going to cost.

You’re also missing the point about buying and selling, this has been discussed in this thread somewhere.

What kind of ULEZ compliant vehicle can you buy that’s going to be safe, reliable etc for a grand?

 

[Will]

1675 posts and has any one of those posts made any one in here change there mind on their views of ulez, for or against? The whole thread goes back and forth......

You forgot to mention the FAQs relating to misunderstandings too