Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[TC350]

My brother is an Asthma sufferer. He’s run the London Marathon 16 times, does a park run every week, cycles around 150 kms a week and swims 1km 4 times a week.

My brother was an asthma sufferer. He went to the gym several times a week and was always active. He died young from respiratory infection (long before Covid).

 

[ToeKnee]

You say that , a bloke on my street has a modern Triumph motorbike in a 'retro' style , can't remember which model it is , to add to the retro look he has a black and white number plate .

He has never been stopped by plod , If it was me I probably wouldn't get to the end of our road before being pulled over !

I also have a friend with a modern triumph, a Bonneville, and that had an old number on a black and white plate. Wonder if it's the same person......

 

[Darrell]

My brother was an asthma sufferer. He went to the gym several times a week and was always active. He died young from respiratory infection (long before Covid).

Sorry to hear that.

 

[clk320x]

Sorry to hear that.

You say that, but you also seem to be massively against a scheme that’s been put into place to try and reduce the number of people who suffer from respiratory and other health issues?

 

[Darrell]

You say that, but you also seem to be massively against a scheme that’s been put into place to try and reduce the number of people who suffer from respiratory and other health issues?

Give it a rest geezer ffs. Blokes brother has died.

 

[clk320x]

Give it a rest geezer ffs. Blokes brother has died.

Which puts things into perspective doesn’t it, now you can see why so many people don’t have much sympathy for those complaining that they have to buy a different car or that they have to downgrade their fancy Merc for an older petrol…. In the grand scheme of things it’s a minor inconvenience for the greater good that can come from schemes like this.

 

[TC350]

Give it a rest geezer ffs. Blokes brother has died.

It was 16 years ago and the hurt has subsided.

I'm now far more concerned about others who may also suffer as a result of inhaling pollutants; pollutants that some authorities are trying to limit but getting lots of opposition.

 

[Dryce]

You say that, but you also seem to be massively against a scheme that’s been put into place to try and reduce the number of people who suffer from respiratory and other health issues?

If that was the actual concern then there would be no offices or houses or schools allowed near roads and no £12.50 charge. And yet there are housing developments allowed next to motorways. (Glasgow laughably is siting a huge new development right next to its urban motorway - across from the LEZ - sheer utter hypocrisy).

You can wheel out somebody who is purported to have been killed by traffic. But it's basically conjecture.

The underlying problem here is invention. A solution has been invented and then backfilled with the absolutist reasoning to justify it.

Left alone the vehicle population will improve on its own.

But dogma overwhelms pragma in this case.

 

[clk320x]

If that was the actual concern then there would be no offices or houses or schools allowed near roads and no £12.50 charge. And yet there are housing developments allowed next to motorways. (Glasgow laughably is siting a huge new development right next to its urban motorway - across from the LEZ - sheer utter hypocrisy).

You can wheel out somebody who is purported to have been killed by traffic. But it's basically conjecture.

The underlying problem here is invention. A solution has been invented and then backfilled with the absolutist reasoning to justify it.

Left alone the vehicle population will improve on its own.

But dogma overwhelms pragma in this case.

I don’t think there’ll ever be any agreement on this thread from the people who think old diesels are more important than people’s health.

By all means, campaign for change in planning rules to ban new development within close proximity to main roads…

Don’t use that as a justification to continue allowing old oil burners to throw out high levels of NoX and PM2.5 into the air.

 

[Dryce]

for the greater good that can come from schemes like this.

All for the greater good ..... ominous - ISTR that there was a film with Simon Pegg where that mantra was sounded.

As one bad decision gets implemented those who made it will move on to finding something to inflict on the public for the next bad decision.

 

[Dryce]

I don’t think there’ll ever be any agreement on this thread from the people who think old diesels are more important than people’s health. I’ll just leave it there.

But how can anybody else here argue against that ..... with the assertion that people's health is at stake you can take the high ground and justify anything.

 

[clk320x]

All for the greater good ..... ominous - ISTR that there was a film with Simon Pegg where that mantra was sounded.

As one bad decision gets implemented those who made it will move on to finding something to inflict on the public for the next bad decision.

What bad has come out of the decision?

The only bad thing that’s happened is some people have had to change their ‘fancy’ pre-Euro 6 diesels for an older Petrol car of equal value… (as a Euro-6 diesel Merc for example is a fair bit pricier than a Euro-5)

Those who have an older car that’s worth say £500 get £2000 for it under the scrappage scheme - so for them it’s a free ‘upgrade’.

 

[Darrell]

I don’t think there’ll ever be any agreement on this thread from the people who think old diesels are more important than people’s health.

If anyone think that then they’re a fool.

 

[TC350]

All for the greater good ..... ominous - ISTR that there was a film with Simon Pegg where that mantra was sounded.

As one bad decision gets implemented those who made it will move on to finding something to inflict on the public for the next bad decision.

Oh, are we going for the speculation argument here? We shouldn't do ABC because that will mean we get XYZ forced upon us!

Who decides which decisions are bad? Simple. It's mostly those who were against them in the first place. They deliberately turn a blind eye to anything good that comes out of the decisions because it either shows them up for being unduly pessimistic, or it goes against their political preferences. Anyway, it's always easy to find fault with every decision. The only people never to have made a bad/wrong decision are those who have never made a decision.

 

[Darrell]

The only bad thing that’s happened is some people have had to change their ‘fancy’ pre-Euro 6 diesels for an older Petrol car of equal value… (as a Euro-6 diesel Merc for example is a fair bit pricier than a Euro-5)

For some people that’s enough.

 

[TC350]

Sorry, my bad. When registering I didn’t first check to see if there was an existing member with almost the same name. I’d change mine if I could, but I don’t know how.

It's goodbye from him, and hello from me.

 

[Dryce]

Who decides which decisions are bad? Simple. It's mostly those who were against them in the first place. They deliberately turn a blind eye to anything good that comes out of the decisions because it either shows them up for being unduly pessimistic, or it goes against their political preferences. Anyway, it's always easy to find fault with every decision. The only people never to have made a bad/wrong decision are those who have never made a decision.

You may well be describing how you think.

Don't assume I (or others) think the same way.

 

[TC350]

You may well be describing how you think.

Don't assume I (or others) think the same way.

Indeed.

How boring would life be if we all thought the same way?

 

[markjay]

If that was the actual concern then there would be no offices or houses or schools allowed near roads.....

That's why LTNs were introduced in London over the past two years.... and they are as hated by motorists as ULEZ is.

Many schools now have the roads next to them closed for through-traffic during school hours. People still drive through and get an £80 fine, then go online and shout blue murder, claiming that it's all a ploy by the council to milk some more money out of them

 

[Darrell]

If that was the actual concern then there would be no offices or houses or schools allowed near roads and no £12.50 charge. And yet there are housing developments allowed next to motorways. (Glasgow laughably is siting a huge new development right next to its urban motorway - across from the LEZ - sheer utter hypocrisy).

You can wheel out somebody who is purported to have been killed by traffic. But it's basically conjecture.

The underlying problem here is invention. A solution has been invented and then backfilled with the absolutist reasoning to justify it.

Left alone the vehicle population will improve on its own.

But dogma overwhelms pragma in this case.

Or diesel black cabs that do not pay.