Stop expanding the ULEZ to all the London boroughs in 2023

[Darrell]

That's why LTNs were introduced in London over the past two years.... and they are as hated by motorists as ULEZ is.

Many schools now have the roads next to them closed for through-traffic during school hours. People still drive through and get an £80 fine, then go online and shout blue murder, claiming that it's all a ploy by the council to milk some more money out of them

The LTN’s were introduced to reduce traffic flow through certain neighbourhoods. Obviously reductions in pollution and less accidents are a bonus.

The reason they’re hated is because they push lots of traffic onto a few roads rather than lots of traffic on lots of roads. More congestion.

I wonder if they’ll disappear once London’s cars are clean.

 

[markjay]

The LTN’s were introduced to reduce traffic flow through certain neighbourhoods. Obviously reductions in pollution and less accidents are a bonus.

The reason they’re hated is because they push lots of traffic onto a few roads rather than lots of traffic on lots of roads. More congestion.

I wonder if they’ll disappear once London’s cars are clean.

I used to get to my office by either tube or private car, sort of 50-50. It was a 40 minutes journey regardless of which mode of transport I used.

After the introduction of LTNs and the introduction of the new Elizabeth Line, the car journey now takes 50 minutes while it's 30 minutes on the tube.

The result is that I now rarely use the car to go to the office.

In my case, the measures taken (improve public transport, make driving the car a bad choice) worked as designed and 'shaped' my behaviour to fit society's needs.

I would personally support continuing with both - improve public transport, and make car journeys the less convenient alternative.

 

[Darrell]

I used to get to my office by either tube or private car, sort of 50-50. It was a 40 minutes journey regardless of which mode of transport I used.

After the introduction of LTNs and the introduction of the new Elizabeth Line, the car journey now takes 50 minutes while it's 30 minutes on the tube.

The result is that I now rarely use the car to go to the office.

In my case, the measures taken (improve public transport, make driving the car a bad choice) worked as designed and 'shaped' my behaviour to fit society's needs.

I would personally support continuing with both - improve public transport, and make car journeys the less convenient alternative.

You appear very anti car.

 

[markjay]

The issue is, that on the one hand you can always point to people who can't avoid using their car - because of where they live, or because of what they do, etc. But at the same time, I know personally quite a few people who still drive and will continue to do so in spite of the ever increasing cost and inconvenience.

In fact, one of my neighbours, who for years used to take public transport to get his office in the West End and leave his car parked at home, recently started driving his car to work daily (it's a walking distance, mind - about 30 minutes walk). When I asked him why he is no longer using public transport, the answer was that a space has become available in the company car park......

When you're next sat in traffic in Central London, look around you and ask yourself - are all these people really making a journey that can only be done by private car?

The idea that we can keep making our roads wider and wider ad infinitum to accommodate for more and more cars is bonkers.

 

[markjay]

You appear very anti car.

I am anti abuse of our planet's resources.

If people only used their cars when there was no other reasonable alternative, our traffic congestion and our pollution issues in city centres will be gone, or at least much improved, I believe.

 

[Darrell]

I am anti abuse of our planet's resources.

If people only used their cars when there was no other reasonable alternative, our traffic congestion and our pollution issues in city centres will be gone, or at least much improved, I believe.

First of all how to you quantify abuse of our planets resources?

Secondly, why don’t you get shot of both your vehicles and show us how it’s done.
Set the precedent perhaps.

 

[markjay]

First of all how to you quantify abuse of our planets resources?

Secondly, why don’t you get shot of both your vehicles and show us how it’s done.
Set the precedent perhaps.

My two vehicles serve 3 households and a total of 9 people (including children). There are 6 named drivers on these two vehicles, plus our youngest is learning to drive on one of them. They are only used on need basis - SIL is a surgeon at the NHS and uses the car when he's on call, for example. Each car does under 2000 miles annually. I am not suggesting going 'full Amish' on cars, just to use them as the last resort and not as the first option.

 

[Darrell]

I’m on

The issue is, that on the one hand you can always point to people who can't avoid using their car - because of where they live, or because of what they do, etc. But at the same time, I know personally quite a few people who still drive and will continue to do so in spite of the ever increasing cost and inconvenience.

In fact, one of my neighbours, who for years used to take public transport to get his office in the West End and leave his car parked at home, recently started driving his car to work daily (it's a walking distance, mind - about 30 minutes walk). When I asked him why he is no longer using public transport, the answer was that a space has become available in the company car park......

When you're next sat in traffic in Central London, look around you and ask yourself - are all these people really making a journey that can only be done by private car?

The idea that we can keep making our roads wider and wider ad infinitum to accommodate for more and more cars is bonkers.

So what if people drive despite the cost and inconvinience. It’s their choice so let them be. Who are you to tell them how to behave.

My wife uses the bus from Mill Hill to get to her work near Bond St. It’s slow and it’s not a nice journey even at 5.30am. It is very cheap though but that has its drawbacks as you can imagine.
The last stop is Orchard St so she gets off and walks from there. This is the point of the commute where she has been spat at, verbally abused at on one occasion physically assaulted. I’m not sure if you’re married but would you be happy for your wife to endure this??
If she works on a weekend she’ll drive because her work has parking. The journey is quick, warm and safe which is something that public transport will never be.

I said the same thing about the traffic on this forum 3 or 4 years ago and got shot down in flames.

The making of wider roads reminds me of a Ben Elton sketch about widening the M25. He compared it to buying a bigger kitchen waste bin. Have a look on YouTube because it’s very funny and very true. Scarily it’s a 30 year old sketch.

 

[Darrell]

My two vehicles serve 3 households and a total of 9 people (including children). There are 6 named drivers on these two vehicles, plus our youngest is learning to drive on one of them. They are only used on need basis - SIL is a surgeon at the NHS and uses the car when he's on call, for example. Each car does under 2000 miles annually. I am not suggesting going 'full Amish' on cars, just to use them as the last resort and not as the first option.

Your youngest is learning to drive? Does he want to be a bus or lorry driver? Why don’t you educate him and tell him he doesn’t need to drive?

Get rid of the cars and cycle, use an UBER or public transport or walk.

Our cars are only used on a need basis….when we need them!!

We were actually car-free from Aug 2000 to Feb this year (Porsche is an ornament) and if I wasn’t working in Oxford or Brighton I’d be commuting into London on my bicycle.
I can assure you, the vehicles in our household really are a last resort and I am really NOT anti car.

And how do you quantify abuse of our planets resources??

 

[markjay]

Durrell, your argument is not with me, it's with all those people making unnecessary journeys by private cars, clogging the streets and polluting the air. If people were behaving sensibly, as I believe I am, then there would be plenty of room for everyone to drive their cars. And I am truly sorry to hear about your wife's unpleasant (and possibly even dangerous) experiences.

 

[Tonye]

is the point of the commute where she has been spat at, verbally abused at on one occasion physically assaulted.

FFS no way would i let this happen, can you not take your wife to work, i would, or stay at home if finances allow. I will never, never use public transport, ever, will walk first. There's a lot of weird people out there.

 

[Darrell]

FFS no way would i let this happen, can you not take your wife to work, i would, or stay at home if finances allow. I will never, never use public transport, ever, will walk first. There's a lot of weird people out there.

It’s happened twice in over a year. Twice too many but that’s a price we pay for using public transport. These people are all sleeping rough outside M&S in Orchard St.

Sadly finances dictate and she does love the job but every opportunity she gets she drives.

 

[Darrell]

Durrell, your argument is not with me, it's with all those people making unnecessary journeys by private cars, clogging the streets and polluting the air. If people were behaving sensibly, as I believe I am, then there would be plenty of room for everyone to drive their cars. And I am truly sorry to hear about your wife's unpleasant (and possibly even dangerous) experiences.

I’ve no argument at all with but please drop the “abusing the planets resources” rubbish because it doesn’t work.

Anyway, enjoy your holiday and don’t let the long journey home tire you out.
You obviously didn’t fly did you.

 

[Petrol Pete]

I also have a friend with a modern triumph, a Bonneville, and that had an old number on a black and white plate. Wonder if it's the same person......

Does your friend run a 'security' company looking after night clubs and a scaffolding business ? is he covered (literally) head to toe in tattoos ? Is his name Chris ?

Also owns a noisy modified Lambretta , both bikes go thru his front door and live in the lounge because garage is full of an Audi S6 ?

Might be the same bloke ... We get on OK , he's a good neighbour.

 

[Tonye]

every opportunity she gets she drives.

GOOD, and keep doing so.

 

[Tonye]

These people are all sleeping rough outside M&S in Orchard St.

Sorry pal, not a scuby, I'm a million miles away.

 

[clk320x]

So what if people drive despite the cost and inconvinience. It’s their choice so let them be. Who are you to tell them how to behave.

The ULEZ isn’t saying ‘don’t drive’ it’s saying ‘drive a less polluting car’… or pay the penalty/fee for not doing so which ultimately discourages the use of said cars in the area.

The argument about reducing the volume of car journeys in general is a wider topic.

 

[Tonye]

Cost of changing much loved car v £12.50 a day = just drive yer car, end of.

 

[Tonye]

FFS its just another tax for living in the smoke, if you don't like it MOVE. If you have asthma MOVE TO CHESHIRE. ITS NOWT TO DO WITH AIR QUALITY. GO AND PREACH TO CHINA OR INDIA, There air is coming next week.

 

[markjay]

I’ve no argument at all with but please drop the “abusing the planets resources” rubbish because it doesn’t work.

Anyway, enjoy your holiday and don’t let the long journey home tire you out.
You obviously didn’t fly did you.

Of course not, I'm cycling back from Italy