Tesco fuel or branded

[Mr E]

My mate has just had a difficulty with his E220 CDI. Basically it went into ' limp home' mode and a quick check with a diagnostic tool showed fault in EGR valve. A Trawl though EBay showed a replacement at £375 + VAT. Anyway, a quick removal and clean of the valve rectified the fault but the cause was suspected to be caused by running supermarket fuel.
It may be a few pence per litre cheaper but may cost more in the long run.

Mine have covered getting onto 400,000 miles, and the only time we don't use Tesco is when we're on holiday (and we tend to use supermarket fuel there too). None of the cars missed a beat, ran clean, good performance/economy and no issues.

 

[Mr E]

I can prove it I've seen engines stripped down run on supermarket fuel for town use only and they've failed before 70,000 miles. I've also seen engines stripped run purely on V power and they are as clean as a whistle. Draw your own conclusions but after 34 years in the game I know which fuel goes in my car

Poor fuel is a known contributor of EGR and fuel pump related issues

Unfortunately neither the stats or the research show this to be the case. If it was, the we would be telling the manufacturers and they would be fast on the back of fuel companies in order to get recommendations, affiliations, etc, set up (and get money from the fuel companies too). But that won't happen because there is no widespread problem.

In terms of research, I'm talking about OEMs running double-blind studies over different cycle types, times and duration and there is no statistically significant difference in outcome between branded and non-branded fuel.

 

[flango]

Unfortunately neither the stats or the research show this to be the case. If it was, the we would be telling the manufacturers and they would be fast on the back of fuel companies in order to get recommendations, affiliations, etc, set up (and get money from the fuel companies too). But that won't happen because there is no widespread problem.

In terms of research, I'm talking about OEMs running double-blind studies over different cycle types, times and duration and there is no statistically significant difference in outcome between branded and non-branded fuel.

The main difference in using branded versus unbranded fuel as already stated is the additive package, having worked in the area of additive packages I can tell you they are not put in there for the fun of it and some fuel companies are willing to pay for expensive additive packages some are not fact.

You can't replicate real world driving by blind studies as no two people will ever drive the car the same or the same route, be in the same gear at the same time etc. so bench testing or limited dynamic testing counts for little or nothing as conditions can never be comparable. Thats why most studies are done on race cars and in motorsport as it's as comparable test conditions as you can get. I've tested various fuels, tyres, components back to back and it works you can run the stats and tell a difference.

If you do high mileage and frequent motorway runs then I agree the use of supermarket fuel poses a very small risk, if you don't do frequent motorway work and only pootle about town then thats where these additive packages come into their own. I saw a nissan micra engine striped at 35k only been used around town and always filled up at the local supermarket at the weekly shop, you would not believe the state of that engine, similar was true of a vauxhall vectra completely cacked up engine EGR valve and faulty fuel pump, run on supermarket fuel all it's life. contrast that to a 105k vectra run on Vpower never had motorway use engine stripped and clean as a whistle not a spec of gunge anywhere.

It's everyones individual choice what fuel they put in their car but don't try to tell us there's no science behind the various brand of fuels as that just in't the case

 

[Dryce]

I can prove it I've seen engines stripped down run on supermarket fuel for town use only and they've failed before 70,000 miles. I've also seen engines stripped run purely on V power and they are as clean as a whistle. Draw your own conclusions but after 34 years in the game I know which fuel goes in my car

And the 'engines stripped down on V power' were stripped down because ...?

What about the engines that have never needed stripping down .... run one one source of fuel or another ...

% of engines that are ever stripped down these days is presumably quite small.

 

[Mr E]

I'm not saying there is no science behind the use of additive packs - and there are advantages to doing so.

What I am saying is that there is no researched evidence that says that non-branded fuels cause more harm to an engine than premium fuels.

Non-motorsport testing does work - I run (until tomorrow) a team that set up and do the analysis for the majority of OEMs looking to use independent qualitative and quantitative in a number of areas including component and fuel suppliers. The point is, as an independent group, we have no axe to grind and no bias toward any party and so we offer no opinion, just fact.

 

[wooddoor6]

I am sure it's all down to Octane levels, low price = low octane = low combustion temperature. Higher price = high octane etc,
Wikipedia if it can be believed has some good info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_V-Power

 

[flango]

And the 'engines stripped down on V power' were stripped down because ...?

Flood damage, bent con rod

 

[Dryce]

Flood damage, bent con rod

So there were other effects involved ....

So basically all we have is anecdotal evidence combined with some spurious stripped down engine samples.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone but there's nothing on which you could make a proper case here.

Now if supermarket fuel was so bad there would be the potential for loads of failures over the long term and there should be clear evidence.

And in the last two or three decades I can recall two major incidents regarding damage and fuel. One was branded and one wasn't.

And if you want a comparison as to how prejudice works in the market look at the recent BA Airbus A319 incident. It looks like a breakdown in two sets of checks on engine cowlings. Fallout to BA - frankly not that much looking at the lack of coverage. Had this been a loco such as Ryanair it would have monumental publicity and fallout for the airline.

 

[johnkyte]

After 50 yrs in the game,,I have never had problem with any fuel
Cars,vans ,lorries ,coaches, fire engines,tractors, 50 ton generators

While I was a lorry driver,my boss used to put lavender perfume in the diesel {made for this purpose]
Our garage smelled lovely--probably so did we!

 

[flango]

So there were other effects involved ....

And if you want a comparison as to how prejudice works in the market look at the recent BA Airbus A319 incident. It looks like a breakdown in two sets of checks on engine cowlings. Fallout to BA - frankly not that much looking at the lack of coverage. Had this been a loco such as Ryanair it would have monumental publicity and fallout for the airline.

Of course there were other effects or why would you strip the engine

As for BA pilot error ! it is the responsibility of the Captain to check the external of the aircraft including engine cowling doors are secured, so that's 3 sets of people that missed it. Also on the 319 it is a well known problem that the cowling doors are difficult to latch and secure properly which should have made them even more vigilant.

That said nothing surprises me with BA and one of the reasons I dont fly them apart from price

 

[Tiff]

Don't really want to wade in to this "discussion" too much but my earlier post regarding being able to advance the timing by quite a bit on an older but fairly high performance engine for its size- surely advanced timing means a faster and more complete "burn" of the fuel and less "residue" Which is what I take as what Flanaia means by having experienced this on stripdown of an engine, as I have witnessed also. There have been countless arguments on every car forum on the planet on oils... and the aftermath of an engine run on cheap and nasty oils is undisputed. Would any of you put a cheap unbranded oil in your "modern" car, or do you tend to trust names like Mobil or Shell? Funny how this doesn't crossover to fuel.

I do put supermarket fuel in my car, but will put a tank of V Power in from time to time. I know which I prefer and if I weren't running on a shoestring then it'd be the good stuff every time. Bike gets nothing but the best, and with a bank of 4 carbs the benefits are obvious.

 

[Dieselman]

surely advanced timing means a faster and more complete "burn" of the fuel and less "residue"

Higher octane petrol,has a slower burn, hence it generates more pressure for longer and you can advance the ignition timing.

 

[Tiff]

Ok, I'll rephrase. A more "controlled" burn.