The EV fact thread

[Bobby Dazzler]

Apple has ditched it's long term plans to develop a fully autonomous electric vehicle in favour of AI development because the market demand for EV is not there according to Silicon Valley sources.

Apple unplugs self-driving electric car project, reports say

A fully autonomous car without a steering wheel and pedals has as much to do with EVs as it does an ICEs. The timescales for bringing such a vehicle to market is far from now that the current market correction has zero bearing.

Slowing down or aborting a very very long term aspirational projects to invest in high potential rapid growth opportunities very closely linked to their core business - ie GenAI phones - makes sense for delivering shareholder returns.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

Here's an EV fact:

Experts demand 2035 petrol and diesel car ban is ‘permanently’ axed

Specialists have demanded the 2035 petrol and diesel car ban be scrapped while no more money should be sent to incentivise electric vehicle sales.

www.express.co.uk

Is it this year that manufacturers have to have at least 20% of their sales as EV’s ? If so what’s the penalty for failing to reach this target?

 

[ChipChop]

A fully autonomous car without a steering wheel and pedals has as much to do with EVs as it does an ICEs. The timescales for bringing such a vehicle to market is far from now that the current market correction has zero bearing.

Slowing down or aborting a very very long term aspirational projects to invest in high potential rapid growth opportunities very closely linked to their core business - ie GenAI phones - makes sense for delivering shareholder returns.

And there was me thinking autonomy was brought to market by Tesla, an EV only car manufacturer.

 

[PXW]

Here's an EV fact:

Experts demand 2035 petrol and diesel car ban is ‘permanently’ axed

Specialists have demanded the 2035 petrol and diesel car ban be scrapped while no more money should be sent to incentivise electric vehicle sales.

www.express.co.uk

Or perhaps just some more opposite EV opinions - with the ABD arguing about preserving choice by not providing any subsidy, and the SMMT arguing that the exact same data would support increasing subsidies.

The article refers to the ABD as "experts" - their own website simply says that they are a general group of motorist who just represent their members' views. So probably about as expert as this forum then!

 

[BTB 500]

Is it this year that manufacturers have to have at least 20% of their sales as EV’s ? If so what’s the penalty for failing to reach this target?

I don't know what the penalties are but I think the target is 22% for cars and 10% for vans (which are even further behind - currently at 5.5% for 2024).

 

[BTB 500]

Or perhaps just some more opposite EV opinions

Only 15% market share in March is a fact from the SMMT, not an opinion.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Is it this year that manufacturers have to have at least 20% of their sales as EV’s ? If so what’s the penalty for failing to reach this target?

Its 22% and the fine is £15,000 penalty for every non-electric car sold and £18,000 per non-electric van.......The main reason for stopping production of small margin cars like Fiestas.

 

[Bellow]

Cant see that ever happening....but we can hope!

It'd be pointless with no fuel to run them on.

 

[ALFAitalia]

There will be fuel, and the cars that need it, for decades yet....2035 EV deadline or not. As said even the most optimistic forecasts only predict that 25% of cars on the road will be EV by 2035!!!

 

[PXW]

Only 15% market share in March is a fact from the SMMT, not an opinion.

Indeed. But everything else in the article was opinion

 

[Bellow]

There will be fuel, and the cars that need it, for decades yet....2035 EV deadline or not. As said even the most optimistic forecasts only predict that 25% of cars on the road will be EV by 2035!!!

Yes, but with an eventual running down of supply as the number of ICE vehicles depletes without being replaced. Which wouldn't happen if ICE sales were permitted for ever more.

 

[BTB 500]

Indeed. But everything else in the article was opinion

Agreed.

Only 15% of new car sales seems shockingly low given the various incentives (particularly for company cars) and sustained pro-EV drive. Can the manufacturers absorb the penalties if they don't meet the sales quota targets?

 

[190]

Here's an EV fact:

Experts demand 2035 petrol and diesel car ban is ‘permanently’ axed

Specialists have demanded the 2035 petrol and diesel car ban be scrapped while no more money should be sent to incentivise electric vehicle sales.

www.express.co.uk

To me they are being unrealistic calling for the abolition of the 2035 ban because that isn't going to happen. They might get it extended but probably not.

In any case they are climbing up the wrong tree by focusing on the ban. The real and immediate issue that will result from this years lower EV sales is the £15,000 fines. And lets be realistic, that isn't going to happen either, at least not for long. What the manufacturer will do instead is simply make fewer cars in order to avoid the fines. What alternative do they have ? Passing the £15K onto the buyer isn't going to wash. We have a recipe for market chaos in the making.

Extending the deadline to 2035 was never going to work without also being realistic about the quotas and fines. This is just another example of political incompetence and it's going to blow up on them big time come the election. The Reform party should get a hold of this and suggest something sensible and they might stand a chance of wiping the floor with the conservatives and hopefully make a dint in Labour too.

 

[ALFAitalia]

They will just increase EV production and decrease ICE car production even further.....if they don't build them you cant buy them ....problem solved and fines avoided. Exactly why certain car makers are planning to go 100% EV well before 2035. So if you need a new car it will have to be EV as there wont be many/any ICE cars to buy and the ones that are built will be the expensive models....not bread and butter cars.....which for 99% of buyer will work just fine despite the nonsense in this thread!!

 

[Bellow]

. So if you need a new car it will have to be EV as there wont be many/any ICE cars to buy and the ones that are built will be the expensive models....not bread and butter cars.....which for 99% of buyer will work just fine despite the nonsense in this thread!!

If the public will be just fine with expensive ICE - explain the hitherto popularity of bread and butter models such as Fiestas and Corsas.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Of course when I said that I meant the practicalities of owning an EV....not so much the price......but its a valid question.....but since over 99% of customers now buy on PCP the list price does not come into it much anymore....as long as they can afford that monthly payment. And just like now, if you cant afford new (like me!), then you buy used....and if you cant or (like me again) don't want an EV then you buy a good used ICE car.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

And there was me thinking autonomy was brought to market by Tesla, an EV only car manufacturer.

Please share the photos. Every Tesla I have seen has steering wheel and pedals

Mercedes were developing “self driving” technology when Elon was still at school, and still are.

Attitudes to risk, proprietary technology and need to establish a brand mean that Tesla - and that really means Elon - have placed a different level of priority on autonomous driving, it’s a core part of their identify and USP.

Established car manufacturers are much more cautious than an exceptionally successful disruptive entrepreneurs who is largely autonomous in his decision making, and is a technologist first, car manufacturer last.

Daimler AG and the vast majority of other established car manufacturers are very different.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

A fully autonomous car without a steering wheel and pedals has as much to do with EVs as it does an ICEs.

And there was me thinking autonomy was brought to market by Tesla, an EV only car manufacturer.

Which technologies necessary for full autonomous driving are exclusive to EVs and not equally applicable to ICEs?

You are perhaps better informed than me - when did or will Tesla release a car without a steering wheel or pedals like Apple had planned?

 

[Dryce]

They will just increase EV production and decrease ICE car production even further....

Opportunity for some retail innovation in the car market - making super cheap EVs - and then selling them as part of a BOGOF or 'discount' offer with an ICE vehicle.

 

[ChipChop]

Please share the photos. Every Tesla I have seen has steering wheel and pedals

Mercedes were developing “self driving” technology when Elon was still at school, and still are.

Attitudes to risk, proprietary technology and need to establish a brand mean that Tesla - and that really means Elon - have placed a different level of priority on autonomous driving, it’s a core part of their identify and USP.

Established car manufacturers are much more cautious than an exceptionally successful disruptive entrepreneurs who is largely autonomous in his decision making, and is a technologist first, car manufacturer last.

Daimler AG and the vast majority of other established car manufacturers are very different.

Yep steering wheel, 2 pedals and Autopilot autonomous function. A extra $$$$ option?.

Sorry never seen a pic of a prototype self driving Googlemobile so have no idea if they had a steering wheel or pedals in case Johnny cab decided to go haywire.