The EV fact thread

[MikeInWimbledon]

All valid points. The French are so patriotic in their car buying its almost comical, it is very impressive to see car parks full of cars that look so ugly/cheap... and yet new. No I still don't think I'm missing anything. I'm in a gite near a 20 mph road and when in the garden watching the cars go buy it is all small horrible-looking diesels covered in dents. I mean fair play to them, it is much more impressive than the Roast Beefs and their clean scratch-free German cars.

Going back to my Carrefour post, one point that wasn't obvious is their free charging deal.

A weekly Carrefour shopper gets 80 miles of free motoring into her EV when she rocks up at Carrefour. It's not worth a lot of money, but it's the sort of Supermarket discount that brings in regulars. Once the routine is established, people are more likely to think of Supermarket fuel as being their "go to."

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Statistics can be misleading - for the daily commute in the most populated areas I suspect those numbers don’t paint an accurate picture at all.

"Misleading?" As in the sense of "not telling the story that you hoped that they might?

They're just information which can be used, or abused, to tell a story or paint a picture.

 

[Will]

The SMMT's data is just a breakdown of currently taxed cars by fuel type / age / etc. so can't really be misleading or inaccurate. Annual mileage is something else - for sure there are older ICEs that do under the current average of 7,400 miles a year, but that will also be true of many EVs (particularly in multi-car households). No actual data on this though, AFAIK.

Not doubting the numbers, I’m just suggesting that they don’t paint an accurate picture compared to usage, which is often why stats are presented in a particular way.

As you mentioned, there’s plenty of households with more than one vehicle and as you suggest, older petrol cars as an example would be typically used less frequently.

In general - old cars get used less than newer ones - I think that is accurate enough.

And annual mileage is not the same as looking into journey types either. A once a week 150 mile round trip could easily be completed in 3 hours off peak/on motorways etc. Someone could drive 30 miles to work and back and spend the same amount of time commuting in traffic - hence many vehicles used for that purpose would be on the road five times as much for the typical Mon-Fri people.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Our 16 year old Citroen has been incredibly reliable (touch wood), but it does have a Toyota engine

French motors, especially the small ones, tend to end their lives with a bang, rather than a whimper.

They all keep them running, until the Atelier de Carrosserie says "Ziss we cannot repair !"

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Not pure EV, but an interesting one on the "economy" or "lack of economy" in running a PHEV compared to a mild hybrid.

It's focussed on the economics of brand new VW Golfs.

No spoilers, but as ever, the financial case rests on the company car tax break and the ability or (in) ability to home charge.

Not forgetting that PHEV's are ridiculously more expensive when new, but cheaper than their petrol equivalents at five years old.

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[BTB 500]

Not doubting the numbers, I’m just suggesting that they don’t paint an accurate picture compared to usage, which is often why stats are presented in a particular way.

The SMMT provide the only stats. they can given that this covers all taxed cars in the UK - there is simply no way they (or anyone else) could incorporate usage.

As you mentioned, there’s plenty of households with more than one vehicle and as you suggest, older petrol cars as an example would be typically used less frequently.

I said there are older ICEs that do below average mileage, but the same applies to newer EVs too.

In general - old cars get used less than newer ones - I think that is accurate enough.

I think that's just your opinion It also presumably depends a bit on what you class as 'old'. We have two petrol 'daily drivers' - one is 16 years old, and the other is 6 years old. Guess which does more mileage (by a fair margin)?

Unless a car is so old that it can't be counted on to get from A to B the age doesn't generally affect how much people use it, in my experience anyway.

 

[BTB 500]

Not pure EV, but an interesting one on the "economy" or "lack of economy" in running a PHEV compared to a mild hybrid.

It's focussed on the economics of brand new VW Golfs.

No spoilers, but as ever, the financial case rests on the company car tax break and the ability or (in) ability to home charge.

Not forgetting that PHEV's are ridiculously more expensive when new, but cheaper than their petrol equivalents at five years old.

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Yes no surprises really, they are best if you can drive them as a home-charged EV the majority of the time. Once the battery is empty it's just a heavier version of the petrol Golf.

With the PHEV it was good that they actually mentioned charging losses (13.3% was more than I'd have expected on a 'rapid' 50 kW charge though).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not doubting the numbers, I’m just suggesting that they don’t paint an accurate picture compared to usage, which is often why stats are presented in a particular way.

I don’t think yours is a unique point of view @Will because in the past other members have made similar observations regarding mileage statistics sometimes being misleading.

In fact the point you made earlier today here….

And annual mileage is not the same as looking into journey types either. A once a week 150 mile round trip could easily be completed in 3 hours off peak/on motorways etc. Someone could drive 30 miles to work and back and spend the same amount of time commuting in traffic - hence many vehicles used for that purpose would be on the road five times as much for the typical Mon-Fri people.

…is remarkably similar to this post from another member a couple of years ago:

Average mileage can be misleading though - five 40 mile trips in a week would be absolutely fine in an EV, but a 200 mile trip every Saturday or Sunday (probably at motorway speeds) might not be.

Source: 5.4L supercharged V8 vs EQC running costs | Electric Mercedes models

 

[BTB 500]

And annual mileage is not the same as looking into journey types either. A once a week 150 mile round trip could easily be completed in 3 hours off peak/on motorways etc. Someone could drive 30 miles to work and back and spend the same amount of time commuting in traffic - hence many vehicles used for that purpose would be on the road five times as much for the typical Mon-Fri people.

I'm sure that bit wasn't there when I replied to your post? But I'm not really sure what you're getting at ... are you suggesting that old cars don't get used for commuting so are on the road for less time than new ones even if the mileage is the same?

As I said, I don't personally believe the age of a car affects how much it's used - if people change to a newer one their usage typically remains the same. Assuming we're talking about a sole/primary car for that driver, not a 2nd/3rd/4th one (which most people don't have).

 

[BTB 500]

In fact the point you made earlier today here….



…is remarkably similar to this post from another member a couple of years ago:

That was a completely different discussion though:



The point back then was simply that a number of 40 mile trips during a week could easily be done in an EV without any roadside charging, whereas a single 200 mile high speed motorway trip (covering the same total distance) likely couldn't.

I don't think that's what @Will meant today, but happy to be corrected.

 

[markjay]

...a single 200 mile high speed motorway trip (covering the same total distance) likely couldn't....

Agreed.

The EVs that can do 200 motorway miles withoit charging comfortably tend to be the more expensive ones and won't fit most people's budget.

Where's an old banger with a large Diesel tank costing a fraction of a new high-end EV can easily do double and triple that without refuelling.

The tax breaks are great to entice business users, but it will be a (long) while before Fred Bloggs buys into it.

 

[BIGDOG]

Agreed.

The EVs that can do 200 motorway miles withoit charging comfortably tend to be the more expensive ones and won't fit most people's budget.

Where's an old banger with a large Diesel tank costing a fraction of a new high-end EV can easily do double and triple that without refuelling.

The tax breaks are great to entice business users, but it will be a (long) while before Fred Bloggs buys into it.

The old banger might smell of fags, diesel fumes and stale chips though.

 

[markjay]

The old banger might smell of fags, diesel fumes and stale chips though.

Is this a 'pro' or 'con' argument?

 

[BIGDOG]

Is this a 'pro' or 'con' argument?

I bought a car once that had been used by the Dubai embassy in London for the first 2 years, it took months for the smell of diesel fumes to leave and it was a bloody petrol.

Not a hint of fags or chips unsurprisingly.

 

[BTB 500]

Agreed.

The EVs that can do 200 motorway miles withoit charging comfortably tend to be the more expensive ones and won't fit most people's budget.

And my comment was made 2 years ago, when ranges were typically lower than the latest models now. But as far as I can tell it's not relevant to the current discussion about number of EVs on the road and their usage anyway.

 

[markjay]

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[markjay]

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[markjay]

Do we have an 'ICE fact thread' where I can randomly post things last this:

Massive Blast at Rome Petrol Station on July 4, 2025, Injures Dozens and Sparks Safety Debate

Early morning explosion in Prenestino district causes widespread damage; investigation underway

vocal.media

Just to raise awareness, of course

 

[SmartAmg]

Do we have an 'ICE fact thread' where I can randomly post things last this:

Massive Blast at Rome Petrol Station on July 4, 2025, Injures Dozens and Sparks Safety Debate

Early morning explosion in Prenestino district causes widespread damage; investigation underway

vocal.media

Just to raise awareness, of course

Yep, but it must have been caused by an EV, in the first place. Very sorry to hear about the injured, hope they will be ok.

 

[BTB 500]

Looks like this was a gas (LPG) leak. TBH I'm surprised there haven't been more accidents with this in the 80+ years it's been used as an automotive fuel.