The EV fact thread

[SmartAmg]

Looks like this was a gas (LPG) leak. TBH I'm surprised there haven't been more accidents with this in the 80+ years it's been used as an automotive fuel.

Yep looks like it, no doubt made a lot worse by the petrol/diesel. But think the main point is, it wasn't an EV.

 

[BTB 500]

Yep looks like it, no doubt made a lot worse by the petrol/diesel.

Will be interesting to see if petrol/diesel tanks (which 99.9% of the time are buried below ground) were involved. Amazing that there were no immediate fatalities given that the emergency services were already there

Reports say emergency services were already at the scene in the Prenestino neighbourhood on Friday after a tanker truck hit a pipe while manoeuvring, causing a gas leak and smaller initial blast at around 08:00 local time (07:00 BST).

Shortly afterwards, a second, larger explosion rocked the area after a fire broke out.

Rome petrol station explosion injures 45 people

The sound of the blast was reportedly heard across the city and shattered nearby windows.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[SmartAmg]

Could the second explosion, not have been the fuel tanks. Although like you say they are well buried. Who knows.

 

[BTB 500]

Not relevant to most here but there was an article in the Times yesterday about the realities of making longer trips in a BEV van (VW ID Buzz in this case):

I tried circumnavigating the UK in an electric van — here’s why it was impossible

It’s green, it’s eco-friendly … and it can take up to six hours to charge, as Chris Haslam discovered. The road trip revolution is still a long way off

www.thetimes.com

Although BEV car sales are doing OK at the moment (there was a surge at the start of the year due to the road tax changes from April 1st) electric vans are struggling, with only 8% of UK sales to end of June (half the ZEV Mandate target of 16%). They work fine for a limited number of use cases, but with past government incentives etc. that small market is pretty much saturated. Much more so than cars they need a big advance in battery technology to make mass adoption feasible.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I had a customer in yesterday with a brand new VW ID BUZZ van.....hes a builder and runs it though the company but its mainly just used as the family car. It was £65,000....gulp!......he had no plans to go EV and was looking at Transporters and similar as well as estate cars. But when the VW sales man said he could have the far cooler looking Buzz for just a £1500 deposit and £300 per months over 24 months for 10,000 miles a year he said I had no choice but to have it....way cheaper than the derv models...and delivery was months on those......it would have been a while on the Buzz too but they had the white he wanted in stock. I cant see how they do it for the money......over the two years he will pay under £9000.....looking as what used ones go for it will have depreciated way more than that amount in 2 years and thats before you take interest charges etc into account.

 

[BTB 500]

The Buzz is a cool looking vehicle - a couple of dog training acquaintances have them. VW have been struggling to shift them though which I think is why there are some great business lease deals available at the moment. If they fit your typical usage profile then they can definitely make sense. But like anything big and boxy they are going to struggle with range at higher speeds, and as per the article I linked they're restricted to 185 kW charge rate which doesn't help. IIRC the bigger Mercedes eVito only charges at 110 kW.

 

[BTB 500]

I had a customer in yesterday with a brand new VW ID BUZZ van

PS is he planning to tow a caravan with it??

 

[SmartAmg]

Not relevant to most here but there was an article in the Times yesterday about the realities of making longer trips in a BEV van (VW ID Buzz in this case):

I tried circumnavigating the UK in an electric van — here’s why it was impossible

It’s green, it’s eco-friendly … and it can take up to six hours to charge, as Chris Haslam discovered. The road trip revolution is still a long way off

www.thetimes.com

Although BEV car sales are doing OK at the moment (there was a surge at the start of the year due to the road tax changes from April 1st) electric vans are struggling, with only 8% of UK sales to end of June (half the ZEV Mandate target of 16%). They work fine for a limited number of use cases, but with past government incentives etc. that small market is pretty much saturated. Much more so than cars they need a big advance in battery technology to make mass adoption feasible.

Yep, nothing new in that article, whatsoever.
EV vehicles be it cars, vans, wagons, etc Won't suit everyone, it's as simple as that.
And if they don't , don't get one. Again it's a simple as that. These reviewer's just roll out the same shite, that we already know.

 

[ALFAitalia]

It does have a towbar.....so it could do.....but hes got a decidedly second hand looking old SEAT Alhambra he only uses to tow with!!

 

[BTB 500]

Yep, nothing new in that article, whatsoever.

These reviewer's just roll out the same shite, that we already know.

That guy said he went to a 300 kW charger with his 84 kWh battery (claimed 30 minute charge from 5-80%) and:

I was simply excited to be plugging in, swiping my card and then watching in wonder as the output display rocketed from 5kW to 41kW. And stayed there. According to the van, it was going to take two hours and 49 minutes to reach 80 per cent.

Then:

the trickle charger at the VW dealership — a tense half-mile away — would take six hours to bring me up to 80 per cent. I gave it an hour to get enough power to drive to Waitrose, where a 120kW charger told me it would take just three hours to fill my battery.

Yet people on this thread have said a number of times that public fast chargers can be relied on to deliver their stated rate, no matter how busy the site/grid/etc. is. Hence being able to plan your route based on 15 minute ultra fast top-ups etc. So if the reality is different I'm not sure that people actually do already know. That's why I posted the link.

The next morning I crept the six miles into Eastbourne on the electrical equivalent of fumes, following the Electroverse app’s directions to a high-speed charger in a Volvo dealership. How I laughed when they told me it was out of order

Again, from comments here I thought being routed to a dead charger was practically impossible because the status was tracked. Is that not the case?

 

[190]

I had a customer in yesterday with a brand new VW ID BUZZ van.....hes a builder and runs it though the company but its mainly just used as the family car. It was £65,000....gulp!......he had no plans to go EV and was looking at Transporters and similar as well as estate cars. But when the VW sales man said he could have the far cooler looking Buzz for just a £1500 deposit and £300 per months over 24 months for 10,000 miles a year he said I had no choice but to have it....way cheaper than the derv models...and delivery was months on those......it would have been a while on the Buzz too but they had the white he wanted in stock. I cant see how they do it for the money......over the two years he will pay under £9000.....looking as what used ones go for it will have depreciated way more than that amount in 2 years and thats before you take interest charges etc into account.

My son has an ID Buzz. It's ideal for his 3 kids having that huge boot. I've never seen anything so big in a passenger vehicle. He also didn't go looking for a Buzz and only took it because the monthly payment was ridiculously low for it's list price.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

That guy said he went to a 300 kW charger with his 84 kWh battery (claimed 30 minute charge from 5-80%) and:

Yet people on this thread have said a number of times that public fast chargers can be relied on to deliver their stated rate, no matter how busy the site/grid/etc. is.

Sounds like there may have been an issue with the car or charger rather than a concurrent capacity issue at busy times

I’d say “rocketed from 5 kW to 41 kW” sounds like 300 kW charger doing its thing, and “stayed there” sounds like something significant happened than another EV started charging on the site, or even another ten EVs.

If 5 kW to 41 kW (36 kW) happened very very quickly (ie “rocketed”) then it seems strange that it suddenly stopped and would then take a further 2h 49m to charge from 41 kW to 67 kW (26 kW).

Up to 80% then there would be minimal failing off of the charge rate. Even if all chargers were occupied and taking it wouldn’t account for that. Like I said before, that sounds like a charger or car issue rather than concurrent capacity issue.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Sounds like there may have been an issue with the car or charger rather than a concurrent capacity issue at busy times

I’d say “rocketed from 5 kW to 41 kW” sounds like 300 kW charger doing its thing, and “stayed there” sounds like something significant happened than another EV started charging on the site, or even another ten EVs.

If 5 kW to 41 kW (36 kW) happened very very quickly (ie “rocketed”) then it seems strange that it suddenly stopped and would then take a further 2h 49m to charge from 41 kW to 67 kW (26 kW).

Up to 80% then there would be minimal failing off of the charge rate. Even if all chargers were occupied and taking it wouldn’t account for that. Like I said before, that sounds like a charger or car issue rather than concurrent capacity issue.

@BTB 500 I’ve just noticed that the 120 kW charger at Waitrose also forecast a 3h charge time. Even if that is to charge to 100% rather than 80% then that’s still far too long.

It could be that both sites were extremely busy with all chargers occupied with EVs charging at the most aggressive part of the charge curve. More likely that there was a problem with both chargers, but still relatively low likelihood compared there being an issue with the car.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Again, from comments here I thought being routed to a dead charger was practically impossible because the status was tracked. Is that not the case?

Practically impossible sounds string, but assuming that the fault didn’t prevent the charger transmitting it’s status and the navigation service being capable of factoring in real time status then it would be unusual to have been automatically routed to that faulty charger specifically unless over-ridden by the driver.

 

[markjay]

Not relevant to most here but there was an article in the Times yesterday about the realities of making longer trips in a BEV van (VW ID Buzz in this case):

I tried circumnavigating the UK in an electric van — here’s why it was impossible

It’s green, it’s eco-friendly … and it can take up to six hours to charge, as Chris Haslam discovered. The road trip revolution is still a long way off

www.thetimes.com

Although BEV car sales are doing OK at the moment (there was a surge at the start of the year due to the road tax changes from April 1st) electric vans are struggling, with only 8% of UK sales to end of June (half the ZEV Mandate target of 16%). They work fine for a limited number of use cases, but with past government incentives etc. that small market is pretty much saturated. Much more so than cars they need a big advance in battery technology to make mass adoption feasible.

I really really like the ID. BUZZ... I think it's brilliant. It was on my shortlist together with the Kia EV9 and the new IONIQ 5. The IONIQ 5 won...

My ex-next-door-neighbour, a non-dom who fled back to the US to escape the new rules, bought one in the US last year and can't praise it enough.

I might still get one at some point....

 

[markjay]

Practically impossible sounds string, but assuming that the fault didn’t prevent the charger transmitting it’s status and the navigation service being capable of factoring in real time status then it would be unusual to have been automatically routed to that faulty charger specifically unless over-ridden by the driver.

It depends also on what system VW are using. I had no such issues in the Hyundai, and neither did my Tesla-owning friends. But, obviously, some systems are better than others.

 

[BTB 500]

Sounds like there may have been an issue with the car or charger rather than a concurrent capacity issue at busy times

Anything is possible, but ...

a) this was a 74 plate press car so not brand new & straight off the production line (i.e. build issue) or old enough for wear & tear to be significant
b) charging is relatively simple & straightforward, and wouldn't the car have given an alert/warning if reverting to a low charge rate for some reason?
c) the ID. Buzz is 3 years old now so should be pretty well sorted (it is a £60k plus vehicle, even after recent price cuts)
d) given that it was being used for an article wouldn't VW have done their utmost to replace it with another one if there was any question of a vehicle fault?

I've read other similar articles about the realities of rapid charging, and @SmartAmg (EV driver) said this was nothing new and all stuff that was already known

 

[markjay]

Anything is possible, but ...

a) this was a 74 plate press car so not brand new & straight off the production line (i.e. build issue) or old enough for wear & tear to be significant
b) charging is relatively simple & straightforward, and wouldn't the car have given an alert/warning if reverting to a low charge rate for some reason?
c) the ID. Buzz is 3 years old now so should be pretty well sorted (it is a £60k plus vehicle, even after recent price cuts)
d) given that it was being used for an article wouldn't VW have done their utmost to replace it with another one if there was any question of a vehicle fault?

I've read other similar articles about the realities of rapid charging, and @SmartAmg (EV driver) said this was nothing new and all stuff that was already known

I don't think there was anything wrong with the car, as I said it's possible the thw VW system is sh1te, I don't know, but I had no such issues in nearly 4 years, and neither did Tesla owners that I know. Whatever is the cause, it's most likely anecdotal rather than symptomatic.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Funny how all these EV problems appear on here....and so many of them. No one I know with an EV ever has any of these issues.........

 

[markjay]

Besides, the guy is a novice:

"The job was to survey the English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish coasts — a distance of some 4,800 miles — but since I had the entire month of May to complete the journey I set a maximum of 240 miles a day, leaving a minimum 53-mile safety buffer.."

Noooo, that's not how you are meant to plan a trip in an EV..... But hey, running out of juice and blaming it on the tech instead of on your refusal to understand how the car works, is much more fun

The article might have been written by a horse and carriage driver who's been given the keys to a petrol car for the fist time in his life and complains that there's not enough room for a bale of hay in the boot

And clearly, he's never heard of ABRP.

"That may sound overcautious..." No, it isn't overcautious, it's just a dumb thing to do in an EV.

But he discovers all this after setting off, as detailed later in the article. As the old saying goes: 'Measure twice cut once' - everything he 'discovered' while driving an EV could be learnt from a quick Google search. But hey....

I think that car manufacturers' press officers should not give EVs to journos unless they attend a compulsory 10 minute course called 'what you need to know about EVs before setting off in one'. It will save a lot of wasted column space.