The Hunt for the Simple Car.

[IanA2]

A Tata?

 

[wallingd]

Ssss?

 

[grober]

Sssskoda!

 

[IanA2]

Sssskoda!

Hate to say it, but these are good cars these days, as they used to be when they were repeatedly champions on the world rally stage....that was a while ago tho!

 

[scumbag]

SKODA? do you mean VolksAUDEATSKODENTGATIwagons? They make vans to!


think i got them all in that one word.



we have a Octavia 1.9TDI auto elegance SE in the family too. its an 04 model. cost new £9900. as it was one of the 5 run out models left before they changed to the latest model. would very much recomend it.

edit: missed one. it should read VOLKSEATLAMBENTSKOGATIGONDI
or maybe VSLBSBAGroup

 

[BonzoDog]

.....

The point of this is I that I said something along the lines of 'they don't make 'em like they used to.' 'No, thank God', he said. 'No messing around with points, dizzy caps and rotor arms, HT leads etc.' I do wonder how often coils used to pack up in the old days - coil pack failure seems all too common now, esp on VAG cars, although I had thought they'd got through that.

Got to agree with Rory, the day's of points, distributors, manual timing, carburettor idle, carburettor mixture, fuel flow are thankfully well behind us. Yes, when you broke down, it was usually possible to get going again but the cost was cars that werre rarely in perfect tune, difficult to set up and, because of all the mechanical components, basically unrleiable.
I remember well how often I would think, "It's not idling properly, it's a misfire, it's not pulling like it should." Up would go the bonnet, or off to the garage to find out the problem. No thanks, I'll stick with the modern electronics.

 

[grober]

Its a matter of degree.

Take your point, but its a matter of degree. We had the undoubted advantages of fuel injection, transistorised ignition, and ABS in the 80s. Sure they have been refined a bit, but basically the same systems remain. They were also robust analogue systems in the main with the digital trickery confined to the confines of the ecu control units. The next big step forward IMHO was stability control which was really a refinement of pre-existing ABS systems. Its about here I think where things begin to go wrong. Buoyed up the success of the necessary initial electronic revolution in cars (necessarily driven by increasing environmental legislation) the car electronics manufacturers started to offer more and more electronic systems largely redundant to the purpose of making a car run and stop. This in itself might not have posed a problem had these extraneous systems remained autonomous-self regulating, BUT because all these systems became difficult to monitor and regulate enter the CANBUS -DATABUS call it what you will "to help " the situation. Everything would be linked together via a digital highway of information monitoring, testing, operating, controling all of the cars electronic components. There would "central control" of everything.
Have these guys never read about the TOWER OF BABEL!!! No the rot set in when they let the digital circuits out of the ECU box to roam all over the cars circuitry IMHO and we have had to deal with the consequences since then. One example of many possible permutations. A rear door lock monitoring circuit fails, the canbus registers this, (notice the door still shuts OK ) There is a door fault says the central control unit, the car is in a potentially dangerous state, a warning light appears on the dash display, AND THE CAR WONT START!!!!!! This is progress????? If you want to test the compatibility of digital electronics with motoring conditions ( dont do this at home children) take your PC or LAPTOP and stick it close to a radiant electric fire, pour water over it and attack it with an electric sander, see how long it lasts.

 

[madasafish]

"If you want to test the compatibility of digital electronics with motoring conditions ( dont do this at home children) take your PC or LAPTOP and stick it close to a radiant electric fire, pour water over it and attack it with an electric drill, see how long it lasts"

Just beacuse MB make cars that drip water over the key electrics does not mean everyone does.
Buy a Lexus.

 

[Fangio]

Lexus don't make cars, they make white goods.

 

[dougal74]

Lexus don't make cars, they make white goods.

Err no white goods break down!

 

[Xander]

Ugly as hell but definetly a simple car :

 

[--phill--]

renault clio. fixing is cheaper than fixing a benz

 

[grober]

Ugly as hell but definetly a simple car :

what is it? Some sort of eastern block renault?
Found it- Dacia Logan. http://www.businessweek.com/@@b5MKlYUQHl8Q8hgA/magazine/content/05_27/b3941072_mz054.htm
"DELUX" version sold in Germany France and Spain for 9,300 euros = £6466 but not in the UK!
Cheaper version for third world 5,000 euros £3475
production cost estimate 1,089 euros £750 compared to western production cost of 2,468 euros £1,716
source Deutch Bank.

 

[Tiff]

Got to agree with Rory, the day's of points, distributors, manual timing, carburettor idle, carburettor mixture, fuel flow are thankfully well behind us. Yes, when you broke down, it was usually possible to get going again but the cost was cars that werre rarely in perfect tune, difficult to set up and, because of all the mechanical components, basically unrleiable.
I remember well how often I would think, "It's not idling properly, it's a misfire, it's not pulling like it should." Up would go the bonnet, or off to the garage to find out the problem. No thanks, I'll stick with the modern electronics.

Gimmie old skool everytime.my X1/9 has a Weber carb,points and a manual fuel pump.It has never broken down,gets serviced once a year,take as much time to service in a year as any modern car,parts are very cheap,and if it does break down at the side of the road,I could always get it going again.With careful setting up,I can get it through a cat test equivalent to a 2003 car.I remember an old Renault 5 I had years back,where the fuel pump stopped.I hooked up the screenwash pump to it,and with 5 second bursts every half a mile I nursed it 40 miles home...Do that in a Clio...Now if the battery goes flat in the keyfob,and my mobile is out of reception,I could freeze to death in a layby....

I HATE ELECTRONICS......

 

[Lazarus]

The pinnacle of old/new IMHO was the last of the old shape Saab 900s, the H type 16 valve turbo powerplant was supremely reliable, but had a sensible amount of electronics involved.

A friend of mine has done over 300,000 in his '93 'K' reg, the thing just keeps on going... a contender to the W124's crown perhaps?

In terms of new cars, I'm honestly not sure what I'd buy for something simple... though I hear that Bristol cars aren't *that* complex.

Laz.
--

 

[fuzzer]

I wouldn't like to be the driver when the emission control (lowered tail) fails.

Its fine as long as youve got an EU4 Horse pulling you allong

 

[oilburner]

The pinnacle of old/new IMHO was the last of the old shape Saab 900s, the H type 16 valve turbo powerplant was supremely reliable, but had a sensible amount of electronics involved.

Hello everyone, here's my two pennorth

The classic shape 900 was going to be my nomination. I'm just getting rid of mine in preparation for joining you lads by taking delivery of a used c class.

I love my SAAB and would have hung on to it longer but the missus thinks it's too old, slightly tatty and wants rid. It's nearing 200,000 miles and is good for plenty more yet. I wouldn't bother with anything SAAB make now though.

 

[glojo]

I don't think you can avoid 'complications'. Car hire companies tend to buy reliable vehicles. What is the most common rent mobile?

You certainly have a talent for writing a good story, I rate it alongside Portzy's excellent exploits. :bannana: :bannana:

 

[grober]

Rent A Wreck

John, not sure of the answer to your question concerning the most common rent automobile. The issue is clouded by several companies being linked to manufacturers.
Europcar-Volkswagen
Hertz-Ford and Affiliates
ALAMO/National-General Motors
Dollar/ Thrifty- Daimler/Chrysler
Naturally they tend to use the products of the manufacturers they are linked to/owned by. Some cynics see car rental companies as a convenient "sponge" to mop up excess production fluctuations in the market. These cars eventually find their way on to the secondhand market and may be factor in depressing values. Ironically buying a new car perceived as a potential "EX RENTAL" type model may give rise to a very high initial depreciation curve but this is no measure of its reliability in the long term. It does mean that they become a bit of a bargain second hand at the right price.

 

[glojo]

John, not sure of the answer to your question concerning the most common rent automobile. The issue is clouded by several companies being linked to manufacturers.
Europcar-Volkswagen
Hertz-Ford and Affiliates
ALAMO/National-General Motors
Dollar/ Thrifty- Daimler/Chrysler

I understand what your saying but no rental company wants unreliable vehicles. Time is money and vehicles being repaired are not earning. I am NOT advocating you buy an ex rental vehicle. No way.

Just look back and think about British Leyland, no Marina's, All-Aggro's
or Leyland vans would grace the forecourt of a rental company.

Surely most popular vehicles are extremely reliable, including Mercedes-Benz. Your story was humorous, but anyone that actually breaks-down is very, very unlucky

If we are looking at the lower end of the market, then the Skoda must be up there?

Regards,
John