Thoughts on Introductory Track Car

[db1]

Hi,

I am considering investing in a (relatively) inexpensive car mostly for track day use. It won't be used much on the road, but will be required to drive to and from the track, so a track-only car isn't on the list. Also, I wanted a car that wasn't too highly powered so as to allow me to learn more about good circuit driving, lines etc without reaching supersonic speeds.

Some I am considering are:

Lotus Elise Series 1 - I have been advised that these are better than series 2 since they allow a wider spread of changes and are obviously less expensive. I have seen one for around the £16k mark which has only 7k miles. Advantage is dealer not too far from home!

Porsche Boxter - Early models around the 20k mark.

Caterham - Disadvantage is inability to drive to and from tracks in wet weather (in any comfort)

Renault Clio - not sure about this due to front wheel drive - would prefer rear wheel drive.

Some other considerations are that I am not someone who can do constant repairs myself (lack of time and ability!), so something that once set up would not require constant maintenance. Should also be cheap to run - ie shouldn't require brake pads/disks after 2 track days etc.

I was wondering what thoughts folk on this forum had about these, and perhaps any other suitable cars for track days before I narrow the list.

Any inputs welcomed....

thanks

DB1

 

[Seamster15]

When you mentioned and inexpensive car I didn't think you ment a 20k Boxster! lol
My thoughts were around cars like the 205 Gti, Clio 16v etc, however paying upto 20k somewhat changes the goal posts!

Honda Civic Type R
Honda S2000
Honda Integra
Inpreza
Evo *
Escort Cosworth
BMW Z3 M Coupe
BMW Z3 M Roadster
VX 220 Turbo
Clio 172/182
E36 M3

 

[Will]

I've got to agree, inexpensive and £20k seem quite a world apart for me!

Maybe with £20K you wouldn't need to buy a car just for track use, and look at spending the money with some sort of track outfit who could offer training and provide the vehicles as well? Then you'd have more of an idea as to what kind of car you exactly want

Just a thought?

Will

 

[db1]

I would like to spend less of course if I can get something that doesn't require me to fix and repair. Also, by inexpensive, I meant compared to Elises, Exiges, Westfields, Caterhams, Radicals and Evos on which some people spend £30k - £40k+ and are out of my league. I went to the Lotus dealer and £14k-£15k gives you a 5 - 6 year old car which you can finance for a relatively modest amount.

I think when folk buy cars that are significantly less they invariably spend a considerable sum upgrading it and making it somewhat unsaleable afterwards. The alternative is spending a little more at the outset and being able to sell it afterwards - the dealer I spoke to said with minor mods it would still be saleable.

In terms of your recommendations on courses - yes - that is certainly something to consider and I would be open to suggestions on which are recommended.

thanks for your inputs

DB1

 

[High-Lo]

Don't rule out a Porsche 968 Clubsport. What a great track car

 

[db1]

Yes, I have heard they are good - but they seem hard to get hold of.

 

[stats007]

Most 968s have been driven to death unfortunately. You do have quite a few options open to you - for £20k you could buy a support car, trailer and a Dax or similar - a modified BMW M3? - alternatively a TVR Chimaera or Lotus Esprit V8 would do though obviously have reliability issues. There's also the Caterham Challenge you could enter for that money - a seasons racing and you get to keep the car. I'd definitely go for RWD as opposed to FWD or AWD - the lighter the better.

 

[bolide]

If you want to learn circuit driving I'd immediately strike all the front wheel drive cars from the list. You'll learn more with a RWD car

There are very few road cars that will do regular track days without regular maintenance and tyre swops. If you run on road tyres you'll kill them fairly quickly and begin to wish you had more track-oriented tyres... This tends to result in the purchase of a trolley jack and a set of track wheels & tyres which is OK but then you start and end the day with 20 mins of wheel swopping. You will also need a boot that's big enough for a set of wheels & tyres which narrows the list down considerably

Probably the only road car that will take this kind of work regularly is a Porsche 911, particularly one of the more hardcore versions. A road-registered ex-racer or track day-prepared 911 would be ideal

Another ideal car would be a BMW E30 M3. There are plenty of track-prepared M3s around and they are famous for being well-balanced. A good M3 also wouldn't depreciate if kept carefully

In my experience, driving your track day car (or race car) to events becomes very hard work after a while. When you arrive you always need to refuel, check the tyre pressures, remove all loose tools, spare wheels, maps, waterproofs, etc and leave them in the paddock

Towing your pre-prepared car on a tiltbed trailer is the answer. Park up, roll the car off the trailer and hop back in the tow car for a cup of coffee. All your kit stays in the tow car and doesn't have to sit out in the rain

At the end of the day just drive the car back onto the trailer, strap it down & tow it home. And if the car's broken (it does happen) winch it up and tow it home - no need to call out the RAC

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Rose Chap]

Nice dilemma to have!

Whilst not having the funds yet myself to do the track day thing, from conversations with friends who have, I'm of the opinion that greater satisfaction is yielded from taking a car and improving it, rather than just using one and never changing it.

Therefore, something like a relatively cheap E36 M3 (£10K?), which could be lightened, stiffened, upgraded, over the course of a few months, so real improvements can be felt in handling and speed.

 

[jdrrco]

I'd be very careful about telling the dealers that you are buying it for Track events, especially if they are the same dealers you would want to try to sell it to when you've finished with it...

'nuff said?

 

[bolide]

Just a couple more things: if you get a car with a cage you may find difficulty insuring it - it seems insurers don't like them

I think the bare minimum for a track day car is a proper race seat, a 4-point or 6-point harness and an external cut-off switch. Coincidentally that will make the car legal for Sprints & Hillclimbs...

A cage is nice to have and makes the car a lot stiffer. But caged cars are impractical for everyday use (if you have manual windows it's pretty common not to be able to wind them up or down without opening the door!)

IMHO the best way to spend a £20k track day car budget is £1500 on a trailer, £3k on a car and the rest on track days and tuition - lots of it! Having a fast car doesn't make make you a quicker driver, but experience and tuition does. At the end of the day it's down to what you want - bragging rights in the pitlane & pub or to be quicker/tidier/more confident/more fulfilled than everyone else

This link may give you a few ideas if you fancy racing
http://www.selocmotorsport.com

You may also be interested to look at drifting. It's growing like crazy in this country and is about style & skill rather than racing. I've seen some really skilled drivers out on the drift days I've been on. There's a strong link between drifting & car modifying but it's possible to drift a standard car, particularly if it has a limited slip diff. Nissan 200SXs are common, as are BMW E30s, particularly with the Irish contingent

Conedodgers
http://www.conedodgers.co.uk

Drifting pics
http://www.bolide.co.uk/actions/image.taf?link=drift


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Richard W]

I went to my first drifting event back in 1976 - it was the Mintex rally.....

I jest, but what's the sudden interest in what rally drivers have been doing with skill for many years now....? just becaus ethey do it in a car park - and oh' they're only marked on style not the traditional motorsport indicator of the fastest wins....? Sorry but I think these drifters should enter a rally and see how they measure up against some fast drivers - entertainment is one thing, but genuine speed when travelling sideways is another.

BTT There's a Caterham 7 in Classic and Sportscar magazine for £7.5k you could do worse than buy that and (quite agree with bolide here) pay someone good for lessons - after all whatever car you've got it's not much fun if you can't really 'drive' it....

 

[CLK320Vert]

Buy an E36 M3 Evo Saloon or slightly more modest 328 still over 200bhp easily achievable, 4K ish another 4k stripping out and setting up with new bushes suspension and big brake kit you will have a flying machine all for under 10K and guaranteed you will sell that on !!! My 328 sport had all the suspension mods/brakes/bushes and was an amazing track drive very point and squirt....

 

[bolide]

I went to my first drifting event back in 1976 - it was the Mintex rally.....

I jest, but what's the sudden interest in what rally drivers have been doing with skill for many years now....? just because they do it in a car park - and oh' they're only marked on style not the traditional motorsport indicator of the fastest wins....? Sorry but I think these drifters should enter a rally and see how they measure up against some fast drivers - entertainment is one thing, but genuine speed when travelling sideways is another

Drifting is not motorsport, it's something else. I've seen, and raced against, some great drivers and the level of skill a number of the UK drifters display rivals that of some of the better racing drivers

Please don't look down on drifting because it's not wrapped up in a traditional motorsport package. For drifters I suspect that's part of the appeal. And don't underestimate the skill involved until you've seen it up close

I've done track days, sprints, drifting and a couple of years of circuit racing. Nothing has got me further out of my comfort zone than drifting. It pushes you past the edge of what you know to explore new things and teaches you new skills. That's why I mentioned it - it's a learning process and db1 wants to learn. And drifting doesn't need a club membership, a licence, a prepared car, a tow car or any of that stuff

For my money anything that teaches driving skills is worth doing - and if the people being taught are not traditional motorsport people so much the better. I don't care if someone's got their baseball cap on back to front, if they're a better driver we're all safer

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[jeremytaylor]

It's got to be rear drive, and if it has traction control, this has got to be switchable. Doesn't have to be that fast, but then you don't want to outgrow the car too quickly.

I'm having simiilar thoughts myself, having sold my Boxster which was great on track days, if a bit too precious to be a hooligan with (plus you need to drive home at the end of the day in something!).

My thoughts have erred towards an M3 or 330 on the basis that it is more like a daily driver, and so what you learn is of more relevance to everyday driving than, say a Caterham or such like. But then Elises are supposed to be soo nice to drive, nice steering feel, handling balance, etc ...

Outright speed is not that important, because there will always be someone faster than you on the straights.

 

[Fady]

My preference would be for a light rear-wheel drive 2-seater. This is also able to serve the dual purpose if being a very nice wind-in-hair weekend car.

If I were looking I would begin by making a list of possible candidates and then looking up details of owners' clubs to find out just how good a particular car is on the track. It tends to be more about handling than power, so you do not necessary need something with massive bhp (though of course you may want this!).

If you don't go to a dealer, you can actually get the likes of a Lotus Elise for £7000-£8000. Look through Autotrader. This is the kind of car that really fit the bill. At this price you are not likely to loose much off the value even if you kept hold of it for a few years. It would be a question of doing your homework and really finding out what is what. Again, an owners' club is a good starting point. People who own cars like this tend in the main to look after them and they don't tend to be mechanically complicated or have tricky electronics that can go wrong and be costly to repair.

Even something like a supposedly poxy "hairdresser" Mk1 MR2 is allegedly a very good track car and you can pick these up for a song. So there are definately cheap options.

The other thing to bear in mind is that, after you have thrashed the balls out of it around the track, you are generally going to be looking at a new set of tyres quite regularly and may need some service items such as frequent oil changes, spark plugs etc.. So if you can't do such things yourself, you will need to know that there is a garage nearby that is able to do so and cheaply. And ideally you don't want a main dealer but independant specialist and someone who is familiar with the particular marque.

 

[janner]

How about one of these...
EVO
300CE-24
M3
Elise
340R
Boxter
WRX
911 turbo
MX-5
Finally, one for the brave.

 

[prprandall51]

Every road car I have driven on-track has revealed just how wide the gulf between track cars and street cars is - what seemed like a precision tool on the road revealed itself to be a wallowing, heavy, slow old lard bucket. You always seem to be fighting your way round corners because the knowledge of the track, the absence of oncoming vehicles, the absence of hazards and the high levels of forward visibility give rise to much higher corner speeds than you can safely attain on the public road.

Plus, you can say goodbye to a complete set of tyres (£500) for every track day you attend. Road cars are just soooo heavy.

Therefore, as was earlier suggested, the ideal would be a trailered genuine track car. It is like night and day comparing the two.

If that is not for you, then there are (IMO) only two options (in order of preference):
1) Caterham or equivalent
2) Lotus Elise. The very early ones had a better (but more edgy) set-up. After about 6 - 12 months Lotus dialled some of the sharpness and accuracy out of the front end in a bid to reduce the number of hedge-visiting incidents by owners.

I guess that also puts the Vauxhall VX220 in the frame - a lovely looker and basically a luxurious Elise, from what I have seen.

BTW: Elises came out in 97, I think, therefore a 7K one will have spent most of its life in a garage deteriorating. Probably better to get a higher mileage one, the engine will be in better nick. Also, for 16K I think you can expect an uprated engine or other goodies (roll cage, harness, etc.). Lotus did an add-on 150bhp kit (bizarrely called a 130 kit) that is fitted to some cars that usefully upped the performance.

Philip

 

[scumbag]

altho i am not an expert. i did see Bulter-Henderson back to back test the Elsie with the just launch 996 porcshe a few years back and the Honda s2000, they did the full GP circuit of silverstone and the honda was 4 seconds slower than the elise which in turn was 1 second slower than the porsche.

they said the porsche was the winner of the day. how exactly a car that was at least £30k more and yet only 1 second quicker should be classed as the winner i dont know!

they do track day cars do porsche but i think the elise is the best car, at least to start with, unless you go the whole hog and buy a track day car itself.

my advice for what its worth! go check out several track days, ask and see what they bring and so on.

then down to Avis for an Astra diesel! thrape it round the circuit and take it back to the hire shop. cheap see, and fun.

 

[jeremytaylor]

How about one of these...
EVO
300CE-24
M3
Elise
340R
Boxter
WRX
911 turbo
MX-5
Finally, one for the brave.

Didn't know they did rear-steer on Elises!