TMC Update

[glojo]

Finally got the response from Mercedes-Benz UK (It took a while for me to type )

There are four companies involved in making TMC available to UK Mercedes-Benz customers: DaimlerChrysler AG (DCAG), DaimlerChrysler UK Ltd (DCUK), ITIS (the service provider) and Teleatlas (who manufacture the navigation discs). Currently we are in discussions with IT IS regarding the cost of the service, which at its present rate would not be economically viable for our customers. Once we have negotiated a more appropriate rate, DCAG, as the manufacturer, will need to approve the application from DCUK. When this has been approved we will ask Teleatlas to produce a disc that is compatible with the systems in our vehicles. Our Marketing Department has confirmed that we are hoping this process will be completed within the next twelve months, however due to the number of parties involved we are unable to be more specific.

I am sorry that I am unable to provide a more positive response on this occasion but recommend that you keep in close contact with your local authorised retailer who will be informed as soon as we have more specific information on the availability of TMC in the UK.

Yours sincerely,
Etc etc.

Now if they intend to charge for this update I for one will not be a happy bunny. There are ways to make this a 'cheap' purchase but this would be better discussed 'offline'

I wrote to Mercedes-Benz UK as the owner of a 211 (new E-class) It is quite likely though that the DVD upgrade would apply to most new Mercedes-Benz fitted with DVD COMAND (fingers crossed)

Regards to you all,
John

 

[saorbust]

Have to say thats pure crap.

Teleatlas do NOT make the DVD navigation CD - that license belongs to someone else. You can already get TMC on the CD Version of the COMAND system - that disc is provided by Teleatlas.

Someone at MB has sold you a dummy.

 

[glojo]

Have to say thats pure crap.

Teleatlas do NOT make the DVD navigation CD - that license belongs to someone else. You can already get TMC on the CD Version of the COMAND system - that disc is provided by Teleatlas.

Someone at MB has sold you a dummy.

I appreciate your input, But I certainly cannot (will NOT) write back to anyone and say what they have said is """crap"""

Could you possibly give me something constructive to put in my reply? (This is meant as a polite request, I would sincerely appreciate any help, or guidance you can offer, but it must be factual)

Is it possible that Teleatlas are either a licensee or licence holder of the software?

PLEASE do not get confused with older systems. I am ONLY talking about DVD COMAND systems. (211 E-class in particular and I believe S class 220 and Maybach?? don't know about the new C-class) I have made that very clear right from the outset.

It would be 'interesting' if someone has given me false information on such a specialist subject and I will certainly not let it rest.


Quick edit: Am I right in saying that Teleatlas actually write the software for the CD equipped COMAND systems and that Navtech write the DVD version?

If so is it possible that they are indeed linked by some sort of licence agreement? Thanks again for any advice
Regards,
John

 

[saorbust]

Hi John,

Simply put...

DVD = COMAND APS (W211 E Class amongst others) = NavTech are the DVD provider.
(Also get Europe on one DVD, cost about £383 - I just upgraded my E Class)

CD = COMAND 2.0 (W209 CLK for example) = Teleatlas.
(One country per disc for detailed road network, cost about £149 with TMC)

The later, ie, the CD - has TMC already and has done for about 1.5 years now. I've had it in my CLK since launch, and have also written a number of articles on it.

So - the reason why I tell you that the info from MB is crap, is on the basis that they mention Teleatlas as the disc provider / maker (and they also say 'CD'). I think they've got the above confused, and aren't giving you the right info. Which lets face it is worrying. I've found this a lot - and in fact I get better info from MB Germany direct.

Clarky.

 

[glojo]

Hi John,
So - the reason why I tell you that the info from MB is crap, is on the basis that they mention Teleatlas as the disc provider / maker (and they also say 'CD'). I think they've got the above confused, and aren't giving you the right info. Which lets face it is worrying. I've found this a lot - and in fact I get better info from MB Germany direct.
Clarky.

Thanks very much for the clarification I definitely agree about going to MB Germany direct.

However when I get information from a 'Resolution Specialist' That 'specialist' had better give me the correct 'specialist' information.

Luckily I have nothing better to do, so this issue will not rest.

Thanks again,
John

 

[glojo]

Have to say thats pure crap.

Teleatlas do NOT make the DVD navigation CD - that license belongs to someone else. You can already get TMC on the CD Version of the COMAND system - that disc is provided by Teleatlas.

Someone at MB has sold you a dummy.

Letter posted and I now await a reply. Thanks for pointing out their 'accidental' mistake.

Regards,
John

 

[saorbust]

Good luck - let us know the outcome ! I'll post any info I have, when I can...

 

[glojo]

Good luck - let us know the outcome ! I'll post any info I have, when I can...

I certainly will and thanks again for putting me right. Although I think they will just correct the mistake.

regards,
John

 

[Shude]

This should have been posted in the electronics section, moving...

 

[VBD]

Hi John,

Simply put...

DVD = COMAND APS (W211 E Class amongst others) = NavTech are the DVD provider.
(Also get Europe on one DVD, cost about £383 - I just upgraded my E Class)

CD = COMAND 2.0 (W209 CLK for example) = Teleatlas.
(One country per disc for detailed road network, cost about £149 with TMC)

The later, ie, the CD - has TMC already and has done for about 1.5 years now. I've had it in my CLK since launch, and have also written a number of articles on it.

So - the reason why I tell you that the info from MB is crap, is on the basis that they mention Teleatlas as the disc provider / maker (and they also say 'CD'). I think they've got the above confused, and aren't giving you the right info. Which lets face it is worrying. I've found this a lot - and in fact I get better info from MB Germany direct.

Clarky.

So did you get the TMC enabled disc from Teleatlas(www.navshop.com) or did it come with the Car because MB does not list the UK TMC CD disc in there EPC? They only list the non TMC disc and it was a news Bulletn this month on the MB network with bold letters saying non TMC.

 

[saorbust]

Eh ?! Whats an EPC ?

Teleatlas provided the TMC disc for my CLK with the CD based COMAND system (easy to know - the disc loads into the unit not into a player in the boot). URL is:http://www.navshop.com/directsales/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_311_393_455_105&products_id=720 for a TMC enabled copy.

The latest DVD disc - V4.0 does NOT have TMC.

 

[sym]

EPC = Electronic Parts Catalogue, I believe.

S.

 

[glojo]

This should have been posted in the electronics section, moving...

Hi Shude very sorry about that, it all gets pretty confusing, my mistake.

Regards,
John

 

[tvcam]

TeleAtlas NAVTEQ

I have just stumbled on to this site only to find others with the same problem as myself.

This is what I know

TeleAtlas produce their own UK CD navigation discs for MB Comand systems that take the single country CD disc (not DVD).

Since Jan 2004 the TeleAtlas own brand disc contains the TMC coding, and they have there own licensing agreement with ITIS Holdings/Trafficmaster.. and Dynamic route guidance works..

MB do not have TMC coding on their disc that TeleAtlas produce, so it does not work. Even though the Comand instruction book for the last 3 years says it should...!!! MB have no contract with ITIS for any of their Comand navigation system, neither the CD or DVD type.

MB has no planned role out date for TMC for either the CD or DVD based systems even though their instruction books say TMC will operate in countries where TMC is available.

In the UK TMC data is transmitted over the Classic FM radio network. Comand CD navigation units have to be tuned to Classic FM, although you can use the multi CD unit to play music CDs while the radio tuner sucks out the TMC date from Classic FM it requires.

Comand DVD navigation unit (uses NAVTEQ discs) has dual tuners, one passive just for TMC data reception, so you can listen to radio station other than Classic FM..!! But because MB do not have an ITIS account, and NAVTEQ dont produce their own version of the DVD disc (like TeleAtlas do with the CD nav units), Dynamic Route Guidance/TMC just aint available in any form.

But even worse, the new DVD based navigation system that has just been fitted to the new 2005 C Class model (out since July 2004) and the new CLK has a fault with the audio commands at roundabouts. Its all being kept very quiet at the moment. They are hoping to solve the problem before too many customers find out.

This is currently a known MB fault with no fix. NAVTEQ and Harmon/Becker are desperately working to fix this fault, but I wont bore you with specific details.

Just to rub salt into an open wound, my opinion is the Harmon Kardon audio upgrade is no where near as good as the Digital Bose it replaced. I know, I have both on my drive now and in new Mercedes.

Sorry to go on, I have lots more info but my wife says I dont know when to stop... but no one has listened to me yet.. I hope this helps somone..

Steve

 

[glojo]

Sorry to go on... No one has listened to me yet.. I hope this helps somone..

Hi Steve,
Thank you very much for your informative post.

I have tried writing to Mercedes-Benz UK, but really I need the address of the department that specializes in the E-class DVD COMAND system.

The latest reply I have is as follows:

Please accept my sincere apologies for the incorrect information provided in my letter dated 22nd October. You are correct, Teleatlas are not the manufacturer of the navigation disc for the E-class, they only currently supply discs for our M-Class and Viano systems. The information I had access to had not been updated correctly nad again I apologise for any discourtesy I have caused you.

****************************************

I do not appreciate being given incorrect information by so called 'experts', but this person has apologised and that is the end of the matter.

It is an interesting issue which I would love to have a proper answer to. Europe has TMC, my country I am told is part of Europe (didn't get my vote) my car has a TMC button, BMW has TMC. I want TMC. However it is not the end of the world not having it, and I will not be loosing sleep over the issue, but if anyone can suggest who I can write to, I will carry on my quest.

Regards to you all,
John

 

[tvcam]

John

I have loads of information about this.. I am right in the middle of a claim with MB for my DVD nav system.

TMC is available in many European countries Germany, Holland, Belgium, Luxenbourg, Sweeden.. and it is available in the UK.

TMC became available in the UK in 1998/9. The Highways agency owned it and gave the role out of it to the AA or RAC free for 2 years. But unlike every other European country the UK wanted to charge for what is a free service in all other countries.

That caused problems. The AA or RAC gave up and it to went to Trafficmaster/ITIS, probably because they had a system and charging structure for a simular product.

Eventually car manufacturers like Toyota, Landrover, Jaguar, BMW wanted it so much they paid for licensing agreements, so that set the ground rules.

Daimler Chrysler did nothing, other than to write in the sales and Comand instruction books TMC and Active Route Guidance worked.. which it did outside of the UK. Perhaps they just hoped it would become free in the UK like the rest of Europe.. but it never..

So Active Route Guidance (ie avoiding traffic jams) does not work on any DVD NAVTEQ based Mercedes Comand system.

The only way you can get Active Route Guidance is on the old CD Comand system using TeleAtlas own brand disc.. not the Mercedes TeleAtlas disc.

This is because TeleAtlas have their own licence with ITIS/Trafficmaster and can put TMC coding on their own disc and allow the buyer to access the TMC data as one of their customers.

Somewhere in Daimler Chrysler or MB UK is a Telematic Product Manager who is responsible for this mess, and I am homming in on him or her.

If we are lucky, it could be a German Product Manager in Germany, then we stand a chance of getting this mess sorted.

But if its a pale faced Brit based in Milton Keynes or London then God save us all..

So to answer John's point, when TMC coding is added to all the MB navigation discs FOR THE UK areas, and when either MB UK or Daimler Chrysler UK get a licence agreement with ITIS.. then and only then will Dynamic/Active Route Guidance in the UK work.

But until then Mercedes UK just keeps saying it will work in the instruction books, MB Customer Service on 00800 17777777 don't even understand the question let alone ring you back with an answer...


Steve

 

[saorbust]

I had a letter yesterday from MB UK (signed by the CEO no less) which informed me they would be enabling it sometime towards the end of 2005, pending contract confirmations etc etc.

Will update you if I hear something else via my other contacts.

Clrky.

 

[calum]

Is there no hope that Navteq will produce their own-brand version of the Europe DVD with TMC enabled, like TeleAtlas do for the UK CD?

Do we know whether there is *any* Navteq DVD, e.g. for another car manufuactuer, that has TMC? A quick Google suggests that they might do...

Finally, any comments on why MB switched from TeleAtlas to Navteq?

 

[glojo]

Is there no hope that Navteq will produce their own-brand version of the Europe DVD with TMC enabled, like TeleAtlas do for the UK CD?

Do we know whether there is *any* Navteq DVD, e.g. for another car manufuactuer, that has TMC? A quick Google suggests that they might do...

Finally, any comments on why MB switched from TeleAtlas to Navteq?

Hi Calum,
Is there any difference between Navteq and Navtech? I have just noticed that my Pioneer DVD Navigation system is Navtech. I don't want to start putting DVD's into the system without knowing what I am doing!

At present I only have version 1 of the DVD, the latest one that has the TMC software is version 3, but I begrudge paying out £370 just for a software upgrade.

Regards,
John

 

[calum]

quite...

yes, I believe that Navteq is the correct name for Navtec/Navtech, but I could be wrong. Google isn't much help here...

they *could* be completely different... so don't take my word for it. (I don't even have a car with COMAND in it, yet; roll on 1st March