TMC Update

[saorbust]

Is it good? Nothing hacks me off more than buying something and then finding it is out of date only a few months later, which iw what looks to be about to happen here. At least, it does hack me off if there is no provision for an upgrade price for owners of recently purchased releases.

Many manufacturers offer a subscription package that gets you all the navigation updates for a fixed annual price. Seems like a good idea to me - if the manufacturer is able to issue a reliable, consistent supply of updates, of course.

PHilip

I think its good. No one said you had to have the update.

The nature of software is that its out of date the moment it leaves the factory.

Cars have so much software in them today I believe the only thing missing is an ability for us to update our own cars using our home broadband connection.

In fact part of me wonders if thats why the new COMAND for the S Class has a hard drive....

 

[prprandall51]

Hi Saorbust

I buy a lot of software and I don't know of any software provider who will sell you a software product in March/April and then launch a new version in June and not offer some sort of upgrade discount for the purchasers of the earlier version. In fact, I will go further, almost all software vendors do an upgrade price for versions going back several years. This isn't charity on their behalf, it is common snese that they are disrupting the revenue flow if they don't offer such schemes.

I cannot imagine why anyone would buy version 5.1 in April for nearly £300 (or whatever it will cost) and not wait until June for Version 6.

As to broadband update, I think the Japanese are already doing it. Certainly the map data providers can support it, I think it is just a question of the car manufacturers implementing it. I read recently that Ford have aleady built a test Focus that supports wireless connection. It can't be long before our cars update themselves from our home computers overnight whilst we slerp in our beds.

I imagine that the big worry for the car manufacturers is viruses! I bet that access to a car's internal hard disk drive is a hacker / virus-writer's dream.

Philip

PS: John, I fully support MB's approach to updating the car's systems. I think it is fantastic. However, Navigation CD updates are a separate issue to my mind. This is one piece of kit that has always needed updating on a regular basis for routing data.

The issue I have with Comand is that I have technical problems with it that should not be there in a navigation system. Navigation is a fully tried and tested technolgy that has not advanced one bit in the last ten years. Therefore, it should have worked from day one. To be honest, if I didn't believe that MB would sort the problems out with a flash upgrade (soon!) I would have demanded my money back on Comand at the outset.

I think I have confused things by discussing navigation data updates in one breath and technical fixes in the next. The two are linked (by MB) in the form of a single upgrade disk. Might be better if they were separate. That way, we could get our Comand units working quicker.

 

[glojo]

PS: John, I fully support MB's approach to updating the car's systems. I think it is fantastic. However, Navigation CD updates are a separate issue to my mind. This is one piece of kit that has always needed updating on a regular basis for routing data.

The issue I have with Comand is that I have technical problems with it that should not be there in a navigation system. Navigation is a fully tried and tested technolgy that has not advanced one bit in the last ten years. Therefore, it should have worked from day one. To be honest, if I didn't believe that MB would sort the problems out with a flash upgrade (soon!) I would have demanded my money back on Comand at the outset.

I think I have confused things by discussing navigation data updates in one breath and technical fixes in the next. The two are linked (by MB) in the form of a single upgrade disk. Might be better if they were separate. That way, we could get our Comand units working quicker.

Hi Philip,
Could you try to clarify what you are saying (I am as thick as two planks)

COMAND is a piece of equipment that is complex and continually being upgraded. Am I right in thinking that we look on it as being a navigational item with bits stuck on?

Other countries have COMAND and it comes without the navigational part, this is a cost option.

COMAND might well have worked perfectly on day one, but a short time later some boffin somewhere might have said, "If we do this the system will work better!" then a few weeks later this same anarok said, "If we add this feature then it will work better!" Perhaps frustrating, but it is nice to know that all the features on our cars are continually being reviewed and improved.

If you are having problems is there anything you would like us to try to see if we can simulate your error?

As has already been posted Navteq are continually upgrading the data information, I did post somewhere how often, I think it is every three months but stand to be corrected. Navteq send this information to all manufacturers and they then decide on how often they bring out updates.

I would suggest that until Mercedes-Benz fetch out a decent subscription package we 211 owners and any other similar DVD users get together via pm and perhaps form some sort of club

Version 5 is really a must have, but other upgrades are a much lower priority.

John

 

[calum]

1) Sometimes (1 in 20 times?) when I start Navigation, it thinks I am in the Vatican City (why??? and why not Andora?). I have to reset the country before it works.
2) The car icon frequently lags some way behind the actual vehicle location.
3) Occasionally, the system reports it cannot find the DVD, and it needs a reboot to fix.
4) The roundabout instructions.

I see 2), of course. I have not yet seen any of the other issues, in one year of use. 'E' class, Jan 2005 manufacture, DVD v4.1.

 

[calum]

hi John,

I would suggest that until Mercedes-Benz fetch out a decent subscription package

Version 5 is really a must have, but other upgrades are a much lower priority.

I believe MB USA do offer a subscription? Seem to remember seeing that somewhere.

I see v5 DVDs on eBay regularly, going for about £130.

 

[saorbust]

Hi Saorbust

I buy a lot of software and I don't know of any software provider who will sell you a software product in March/April and then launch a new version in June and not offer some sort of upgrade discount for the purchasers of the earlier version. In fact, I will go further, almost all software vendors do an upgrade price for versions going back several years. This isn't charity on their behalf, it is common snese that they are disrupting the revenue flow if they don't offer such schemes.

I cannot imagine why anyone would buy version 5.1 in April for nearly £300 (or whatever it will cost) and not wait until June for Version 6.

Hi

Support your views - but I brought my V5 disc in December - see http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=21470

On this basis a 6 monthly release cycle is fine. After all its not MB's fault the road network is expanding.

You are right though - I wouldn't buy V5.1 No point. I will get V6.0 the moment it appears.

Clarky.

 

[calum]

On this basis a 6 monthly release cycle is fine.

yup, the release model is fine, it's the pricing that's all ****d up.

 

[glojo]

yup, the release model is fine, it's the pricing that's all ****d up.

I'm positive the Pioneer upgrade was £300 + however two WRONGs do not make a right. I always try to be realistic and look at things from both angles. I wonder how much the overheads are plus of course all the staff, premises equipment etc. They claim to have vehicles out on our highways and the byeways continually updating their database???

Is it a Catch 22 where they need a profit to survive so charge high prices?

In the short term lower prices would not keep them afloat??

I have not kept up todate with the US subscription idea, a year or so ago there was lots of talk, but I will check and get back.

We have suffered from item two, but item 1) would be a no- no Lambeth Palace perhaps.

The reboot fix has actually been the subject of an upgrade, but I'm sure yours will have had that done???

The roundabout issue has been discussed, but we have not suffered this problem, I would NEVER dare give my wife wrong directions and perhaps our COMAND has tried it and experienced the wrath of my 'Little Woman'

Bye for now,
John

 

[prprandall51]

Quick reply to John's point (all day meeting):

Yes, I am only talking about the Navigation engine within Comand. The audio and telecoms elements of the system are fantastic. But Comand is sold as a complete package and the principal elements are perceived to be the Nav front end and the DVD system in the boot. If I hadn't paid the cost of Comand, MB would still have put in an Audio 10 system and I had to pay for the phone prep as another extra. So, in my mind, the £2K cost of Comand bought me (principally) a DVD-based Nav system with large colour monitor.

Back to the meeting... will read all the subsequent posts later.

Philip

 

[jdrrco]

Does anyone know how to get hold of all the flash upgrades of W211 comand dvd? I am about to take delivery of a Sep '03 E270CDI and would like to know that the Comand system has been updated with all the bug fixes before splashing out on a V5 or V6 DVD.

 

[glojo]

Does anyone know how to get hold of all the flash upgrades of W211 comand dvd? I am about to take delivery of a Sep '03 E270CDI and would like to know that the Comand system has been updated with all the bug fixes before splashing out on a V5 or V6 DVD.

Nice to speak to you and welcome,
I would really recommend you make sure your new car has had all the upgrades and recalls before taking delivery. There is nothing to worry about but there has been two or three minor recalls and approximately fourteen upgrades for the E-class.

I am sure most would have been carried out when the car was last serviced. The upgrades for the COMAND are part of this and I would recommend you go for the lot.

If you have ANY questions about your car then this is the place to ask. There are some really knowledgeable folks here who are very helpful.

Regards,
John

 

[jdrrco]

Nice to speak to you and welcome,
I would really recommend you make sure your new car has had all the upgrades and recalls before taking delivery. There is nothing to worry about but there has been two or three minor recalls and approximately fourteen upgrades for the E-class.

I am sure most would have been carried out when the car was last serviced. The upgrades for the COMAND are part of this and I would recommend you go for the lot.

If you have ANY questions about your car then this is the place to ask. There are some really knowledgeable folks here who are very helpful.

Regards,
John

Thanks for your welcome and for your input. Is there a definitive list I can quote to the MB dealer to ensure the Comand is up to date? Having owned 2 MBs before, I don't necessarily take it as read when they "assure" me that everything has been done.

The dealer has seemed very helpful to be fair, but when I said I wanted the "most recent" DVD included in the car, (as it had none), the salesman assured me that the latest version was the 2004 disk! I have since told him that I expect the V5.0 disk, but am not holding my breath...

 

[glojo]

Thanks for your welcome and for your input. Is there a definitive list I can quote to the MB dealer to ensure the Comand is up to date? Having owned 2 MBs before, I don't necessarily take it as read when they "assure" me that everything has been done....

The worse department to speak to is the sales department. I am told that dealerships do not hold the records of individual cars not serviced by them?? but when I supplied my VIN number to the Mercedes-Benz helpline they told me what upgrades and recalls my vehicle needed.

I would suggest you get the service department to look up the VIN or registration number and they should be able to let you know what is required.

I do not have the complete breakdown of what 'upgrade' does what to the car, and if it were me, I would concentrate on making sure the car is completely up todate as opposed to cherry picking. If you are getting the car from a main dealer then they are duty bound to do this as part of the pre sales procedure.

Your car should also be able to play Mp3's from a DVD that you can write. 255 folders with a maximum of 255 files in each folder. This again is a 'flash' upgrade that should have been done.

As I previously said, please feel free to ask questions. Oh make sure your car comes with BOTH manuals. Car, plus COMAND.

Regards,
John

 

[glojo]

hi John,

I believe MB USA do offer a subscription? Seem to remember seeing that somewhere.

This is what I have found out but please note it is from the MBUSA :

Subscribing to Mercedes-Benz Navigation Updates (NavUpdate)
The only navigation subscription program available from an automotive manufacturer, NavUpdate allows you to update your DVD/CD navigation system regularly, at substantial savings over single DVD/CD purchases.


Why Update the Map?
It's estimated that 15 to 20 percent of the data in your navigation DVD/CD changes every year, so it's important to keep the information up-to-date. By subscribing to updated DVD/CDs you'll always have the confidence you need to find your way.


The main advantages of updating your navigation DVD/CD are:
· More detailed and accurate information helps maintain effectiveness of the navigation system.
· Updated route information keeps you on course without unexpected surprises.
· New information updates over 900,000 points of interest in 45 categories.


Navigation Update Subscription: an excellent value
By subscribing to the NavUpdate service, you'll save money over buying individual DVD/CDs. Plus, your updated DVD/CD will be sent directly to the address you provide, for even greater convenience.


PHP Code:

Years Individual DVDs NavUpdate Subscription Savings
1 $275 $198 $77
2 $550 $389 $161
3 $825 $498 $327

Years Individual CDs NavUpdate Subscription Savings
1 $160 $125 $35
2 $320 $225 $95

Years CD Collection* NavUpdate Subscription Savings
1 $296 $225 $71
2 $592 $415 $177
​

Pricing is subject to change. Prices are effective as of November 2003.

*An individual CD contains information for a single map area. A CD collection is a complete set of CDs.

 

[jdrrco]

The worse department to speak to is the sales department. I am told that dealerships do not hold the records of individual cars not serviced by them?? but when I supplied my VIN number to the Mercedes-Benz helpline they told me what upgrades and recalls my vehicle needed.

I would suggest you get the service department to look up the VIN or registration number and they should be able to let you know what is required.

I do not have the complete breakdown of what 'upgrade' does what to the car, and if it were me, I would concentrate on making sure the car is completely up todate as opposed to cherry picking. If you are getting the car from a main dealer then they are duty bound to do this as part of the pre sales procedure.

Your car should also be able to play Mp3's from a DVD that you can write. 255 folders with a maximum of 255 files in each folder. This again is a 'flash' upgrade that should have been done.

As I previously said, please feel free to ask questions. Oh make sure your car comes with BOTH manuals. Car, plus COMAND.

Regards,
John

Thanks again. I really appreciate the suggestion of quoting the VIN number to the MB helpline to double-check. I hate being this cynical but previous MB dealers I've dealt with have been so untrustworthy.

This car is also coming from a main dealer (MB of Huddersfield) and I agree I want to know that all the updates have been installed. My concern was that they may just do the latest one to placate me and I find out later that it had "missed" a few in the middle.

The MP3 bit sounds like fun. What with that and being able to plug my iPod into the glovebox, I should be able to get all 650 CDs in my collection in the car at once. Now all I need is a 45,000 mile trip to work my way through them...

As I said, the dealer has been uncharacteristically helpful so far and, as awful as it sounds, this has probably made me more suspicious. Isn't it sad that such great cars are marred by lousy dealers.

Anyway, I hope I've finally stumbled on a good one and I'll let you know what transpires. The DVLA are holding things up at the moment with transferring my plate to the new car, so likely to be Tues/Weds next week before I get to play!

Watch this space...

 

[jdrrco]

The worse department to speak to is the sales department. I am told that dealerships do not hold the records of individual cars not serviced by them?? but when I supplied my VIN number to the Mercedes-Benz helpline they told me what upgrades and recalls my vehicle needed.

I would suggest you get the service department to look up the VIN or registration number and they should be able to let you know what is required.

I do not have the complete breakdown of what 'upgrade' does what to the car, and if it were me, I would concentrate on making sure the car is completely up todate as opposed to cherry picking. If you are getting the car from a main dealer then they are duty bound to do this as part of the pre sales procedure.

Your car should also be able to play Mp3's from a DVD that you can write. 255 folders with a maximum of 255 files in each folder. This again is a 'flash' upgrade that should have been done.

As I previously said, please feel free to ask questions. Oh make sure your car comes with BOTH manuals. Car, plus COMAND.

Regards,
John

Car has arrived, V5.0 has arrived, all working fine. Next question is:
I've managed to burn 700+ mp3s onto a dvd through itunes and the first 255 play fine. how do i create folders so that all of them will play and to ease scrolling through them?

 

[saorbust]

Car has arrived, V5.0 has arrived, all working fine. Next question is:
I've managed to burn 700+ mp3s onto a dvd through itunes and the first 255 play fine. how do i create folders so that all of them will play and to ease scrolling through them?

If you can get this to work I'll be impressed.

I've never managed to get more than 255 songs to work, either in folders or as songs listed together. I'd also add that my system has just been patched for everything (see another thread re total failure).

I've never managed to get this resolved, although I believe John has.

 

[glojo]

If you can get this to work I'll be impressed.

I've never managed to get more than 255 songs to work, either in folders or as songs listed together. I'd also add that my system has just been patched for everything (see another thread re total failure).

I've never managed to get this resolved, although I believe John has.

Now speaking as someone that liased in GREAT detail over this I can honestly say, hand on heart that I have spent hours on this very subject.

I have over 1200 Mp3's.......... On the one DVD and it works perfectly.

I am NOT saying my way is right, I am merely saying my way works both on my vehicle and a vehicle at Milton Keynes.

The first thing is to use a copying program that the COMAND recognises.

It sounds like you have done this.

Now the magic numbers as you have found are 255.

Do NOT exceed these.

Make a new folder then work out how many folders you want.

Fill these folders with your tunes (a maximum of 255 tunes per folder)

Then use your writing software and copy the X amount of folders onto your DVD. Hopefully, fingers crossed this will work.

Do NOT put folders within folders.

Regards,
John

 

[saorbust]

Now speaking as someone that liased in GREAT detail over this I can honestly say, hand on heart that I have spent hours on this very subject.

I have over 1200 Mp3's.......... On the one DVD and it works perfectly.

I am NOT saying my way is right, I am merely saying my way works both on my vehicle and a vehicle at Milton Keynes.

The first thing is to use a copying program that the COMAND recognises.

It sounds like you have done this.

Now the magic numbers as you have found are 255.

Do NOT exceed these.

Make a new folder then work out how many folders you want.

Fill these folders with your tunes (a maximum of 255 tunes per folder)

Then use your writing software and copy the X amount of folders onto your DVD. Hopefully, fingers crossed this will work.

Do NOT put folders within folders.

Regards,
John

John,

I'm laughing because we've spoken about this so many times.

I have exactly that structure. I cannot get beyond the limit I've mentioned.

I suspect whilst I've been beating people up about TMC, you've been beating them up about MP3.

I guess we both won in our own ways....

Although wouldn't mind knowing what software you are using....

EDIT: I think I may be wrong. I know I can see more than the no. of songs I've mentioned - because I can see about 50 album folders. Some have over 50 songs in them.

Therefore I'm seeing about 500 songs.

It must be something else....

 

[glojo]

Although wouldn't mind knowing what software you are using.....

Roxio

We will have to start looking into it again.

Please feel free to post me your music and I will endeavour to put my money where my mouth is

We ought to dig out the old thread

Good luck,
John