TMC Update

[glojo]

So it follows, where TeleAtlas make their own brand of disc for Mercedes Benz CD Comands, they have to charge us an extra £60 for the UK TMC coding.

Hi tvcam,
I think you misunderstood my post. We totally accept ITIS are the licence holder for the TMC system in the UK.

I am merely saying that if you live in Germany and buy your NAVTEQ version 5 DVD why should you pay £60 extra for it to receive the UK signal?

Now before you pull your hair out and scream your talking about Great Britain.........

I, as an Englishman travel to Germany and buy the same DVD as my German friend. This DVD will be EXACTLY the same as the one the German bought from his local dealer. His DVD will work in Germany, my DVD will work in Germany. His DVD will work in Great Britain, my DVD will work in Great Britain.

If you buy the latest version 5 DVD for the E-class which is NAVTEQ it will have instructions in mutiple languages. The DVD is sold throughout Europe.

I hope I have explained myself and perhaps you can see why I queried your 'think' remarks.

I have NO knowledge about the Teleatlas C-class version so will not put my foot in the proverbial and comment about it.

Vrey kind regards
John

 

[VBD]

The next Teleatlas version for the C, ML, Smart, A and B class is only now coming out (Version 6.1) and no there will not be an increase cost if you live in the UK because of TMC. The costs will be approximately the same as the previous version and pretty much uniform throught Europe(exchange rate will vary the price slightly).

Oh and by the way version 5.0 for the E class has not been officially recalled and is readily available throughout Europe, hence examples being sold on eBay. Incidentally the are some unofficial things available on the disc, like Greece being present even though they are not listed on the DVD cover itself.

Version 6.1 for the ML and the like, is due soon and yes it will have UK TMC on it, part number is as follows B67823641. You can check the availability, but expect a wait as stocks have not been built up as yet.

 

[tvcam]

ITS NOT MORE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE UK..!!

UK TMC is not free no matter which country you buy a disc with it on..

But it just so happens that most of the sales of UK TMC discs will be in the UK and bought by people that live in the UK.. please..!!

It then follows, too buy a TeleAtlas Blaupunkt MB disc with UK TMC will cost you more than a non UK TMC version whether you buy it in the UK, Denmark, Germany etc. The extra cost is £60 or 90 euros.

TMC data, coding, and usage in mainland europe for all other countries other than the UK is given by their government departments free of charge to road users, even if you live in the UK and drive in their country and use their TMC...!!

In the UK, our government sold the UK TMC rights to the private sector after offering it free for three years to enable development of the system, and ITIS (Trafficmaster) now own it and license it to third parties.

MB have had a license since January 2005 but are sitting on their fat a**e taking over a year to get a product out.. and furthermore wont let NavTeq produce their own brand disc to run in DVD Comand, so MB have complete control on Comand DVD systems

And what is even more stupid, is that most people in the UK buying the DVD European disc at three times the cost of the CD discs will only use it in their own country... and at best may go outside the UK one or two times a year. Unlike mainland european drivers who cross country boaders more often..

That is most people, not everyone..!!

 

[glojo]

And what is even more stupid, is that most people in the UK buying the DVD European disc at three times the cost of the CD discs will only use it in their own country... and at best may go outside the UK one or two times a year. Unlike mainland european drivers who cross country boaders more often..

That is most people, not everyone..!!

I am very sorry that you have completely failed to undrstand what is happening.

You have now been told the version for the M-class and the C is 6.1!!!!! You are also told there will be no price differential.

The statement you have made about buying the DVD at three times the cost of a CD is baffling?? The 211 DVD COMAND navigation system takes a dedicated navigation DVD!! It is NOT capable of playing a CD. There has NEVER been a navigational CD for the DVD 211 COMAND. earlier upgrade DVDs have cost in excess of £340, so this latest update is much, much cheaper (I suppose you knew that)

Our conversations are going round and round and enough is enough.

I have politely tried my best to explain that:

We accept that ITIS hold the licence for the TMC signal.

There is only ONE version of this new DVD for the 211 and it contains numerous update information. One line of programming on this DVD actually allows us to receive the TMC signal.

You can waffle on for as long as you want about two versions and that is your right, but there is only ONE. It is on sale even in Norway where they still do not have TMC information. Again it is the SAME version as the one on sale throughout Europe.

PLEASE, please accept we have discussed this subject for a very long time, both soarbust and I have been in correspondence with Mercedes-Benz over this issue.

Finally..... I have always said that ITIS hold the licence!

Kind regards,
John

EdiotFreudian slip)

Just noted your comment about Navteq:

MB have had a license since January 2005 but are sitting on their fat a**e taking over a year to get a product out.. and furthermore wont let NavTeq produce their own brand disc to run in DVD Comand, so MB have complete control on Comand DVD systems

NAVTEQ do write Navigational DVDs but they are still model specific. Mercedes-Benz buy the mapping data and along with many other manufacturers then go onto to write their own disc (be they CD, or DVD) As previously stated I own the Pioneer system and the DVD for the Mercedes will not play in the Pioneer and likewise the Pioneer DVD will not play in the Mercedes. So are Pioneer as guilty as Mercedes-Benz?

Mercedes-Benz did indeed take a very long time to produce the DVD and it was a subject of one of my letters, but I would much prefer a delay rather than a recall which some members seem to take great delight in alleging.

I have also been in contact with NAVTEQ over their mapping data and found them to be most helpful, they listen and indeed act upon sensible information that is passed to them.

I would honestly welcome any factual comments you might have about the system as I do accept it is NOT perfect. There is a place for criticism and without it no one will ever move on to greater acheivement, but surely we must both accept that this criticism must be factual, and not what you 'think'

John

 

[saorbust]

I am very sorry that you have completely failed to undrstand what is happening.

You have now been told the version for the M-class and the C is 6.1!!!!! You are also told there will be no price differential.

The statement you have made about buying the DVD at three times the cost of a CD is baffling?? The 211 DVD COMAND navigation system takes a dedicated navigation DVD!! It is NOT capable of playing a CD. There has NEVER been a navigational CD for the DVD 211 COMAND. earlier upgrade DVDs have cost in excess of £340, so this latest update is much, much cheaper (I suppose you knew that)

Our conversations are going round and round and enough is enough.

I have politely tried my best to explain that:

We accept that ITIS hold the licence for the TMC signal.

There is only ONE version of this new DVD for the 211 and it contains numerous update information. One line of programming on this DVD actually allows us to receive the TMC signal.

You can waffle on for as long as you want about two versions and that is your right, but there is only ONE. It is on sale even in Norway where they still do not have TMC information. Again it is the SAME version as the one on sale throughout Europe.

PLEASE, please accept we have discussed this subject for a very long time, both soarbust and I have been in correspondence with Mercedes-Benz over this issue.

Finally..... I have always said that ITIS hold the licence!

Kind regards,
John

EdiotFreudian slip)

Just noted your comment about Navteq:

MB have had a license since January 2005 but are sitting on their fat a**e taking over a year to get a product out.. and furthermore wont let NavTeq produce their own brand disc to run in DVD Comand, so MB have complete control on Comand DVD systems

NAVTEQ do write Navigational DVDs but they are still model specific. Mercedes-Benz buy the mapping data and along with many other manufacturers then go onto to write their own disc (be they CD, or DVD) As previously stated I own the Pioneer system and the DVD for the Mercedes will not play in the Pioneer and likewise the Pioneer DVD will not play in the Mercedes. So are Pioneer as guilty as Mercedes-Benz?

Mercedes-Benz did indeed take a very long time to produce the DVD and it was a subject of one of my letters, but I would much prefer a delay rather than a recall which some members seem to take great delight in alleging.

I have also been in contact with NAVTEQ over their mapping data and found them to be most helpful, they listen and indeed act upon sensible information that is passed to them.

I would honestly welcome any factual comments you might have about the system as I do accept it is NOT perfect. There is a place for criticism and without it no one will ever move on to greater acheivement, but surely we must both accept that this criticism must be factual, and not what you 'think'

John

Hear hear, John - agree with every word.

I've interviewed many of the people at ITIS holdings as a research piece. I'm only gutted that they brought the license and not me for TMC - how the government sold it is not my concern. Write to your MP.

As for the discs - do you actually KNOW the prices ? Then we can have a debate.

 

[glojo]

As for the discs - do you actually KNOW the prices ? Then we can have a debate.

Only the UK prices for the numerous UK 211 DVD's.

I would have lost the sweepstake when I predicted the new version 5 would be more expensive than previous versions

My good friend 'Oslo' very kindly informed me that version 5 was available in Norway, he also stated how it had more information than previous versions, but his country still did not have a TMC system in operation.

I regard you as a very knowledgeable person on this subject and was surprised when someone alleged that Trafficmaster was part of NAVTEQ?? I thought they were two completely seperate companies, some folks even saying the former is a better more up todate system?

Trafficmaster

As usual it is very nice speaking to you,
John

 

[prprandall51]

Hear hear, John - agree with every word.

I've interviewed many of the people at ITIS holdings as a research piece. I'm only gutted that they brought the license and not me for TMC - how the government sold it is not my concern. Write to your MP.

The RDS licence was sitting around for years - unloved and unwanted. A business friend of mine owned it (!!) and ran a Differential GPS service in it that was very useful to surveyors and such like but it was never a money spinner. He was aware of the traffic opportunity but was unable to stitch together the necessary strands for a full Traffic service. Perhaps because I was helping him do it.

IIRC he let it go (had to let it go? He had a licence for 8 years, I think it expired) and the next thing I knew is that ITIS had got hold of it. I guess they were able to put a strong business case forward to the relevant Gov't department for its use and won the rights to it. Bet you anything that Sir Tony and Sir Gordon get their wedge.

Philip

 

[glojo]

Bet you anything that Sir Tony and Sir Gordon get their wedge.

Philip

Just what are you insinuating?

Excellent post,
John

 

[saorbust]

The RDS licence was sitting around for years - unloved and unwanted. A business friend of mine owned it (!!) and ran a Differential GPS service in it that was very useful to surveyors and such like but it was never a money spinner. He was aware of the traffic opportunity but was unable to stitch together the necessary strands for a full Traffic service. Perhaps because I was helping him do it.

IIRC he let it go (had to let it go? He had a licence for 8 years, I think it expired) and the next thing I knew is that ITIS had got hold of it. I guess they were able to put a strong business case forward to the relevant Gov't department for its use and won the rights to it. Bet you anything that Sir Tony and Sir Gordon get their wedge.

Philip

LOL. Interesting quirk and point to note here. Its impossible for a company to own a public broadcast license. It has to belong to an individual. Therefore its reasonable to assume someone owns it and maybe ITIS pay commission....

 

[saorbust]

Only the UK prices for the numerous UK 211 DVD's.

I would have lost the sweepstake when I predicted the new version 5 would be more expensive than previous versions

My good friend 'Oslo' very kindly informed me that version 5 was available in Norway, he also stated how it had more information than previous versions, but his country still did not have a TMC system in operation.

I regard you as a very knowledgeable person on this subject and was surprised when someone alleged that Trafficmaster was part of NAVTEQ?? I thought they were two completely seperate companies, some folks even saying the former is a better more up todate system?

Trafficmaster

As usual it is very nice speaking to you,
John

Traffic master is a seperate product and company. They do the blue lampposts beside the road which monitor traffic. ITIS work using sensors in vehicles.

ITIS provide the AA Roadwatch telephone information - I think its 401 100 or 2222 from a vodafone mobile....

Jonathon

PS. I regard you as a very knowledgable person too John. Group hug.....

 

[tvcam]

entered twice hmm

 

[tvcam]

I never said Trafficmaster was part of Navteq.. I said ITIS was part of TrafficMaster..

I never said Navigation CDs would run in a 211 Comand.. I was comparing the prices of the two products and their usage by UK drivers..

Its seem some of you work for MB and cant take the critique..

TMC does not come from the navigation disc, it is transmitted over Classic FM in the UK, licensing allows the user to combine the received TMC data with TMC coding on the navigation disc and process the information for what MB call Dynamic Route Guidance, whether it be a CD or DVD navigation disc.. AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT a 211

Fact is MB obtained a license in January 2005 and have taken over a year to get a navigation disc that will allow Dynamic Route Guidance, whether it be a DVD or CD AND I AM NOT TALING ABOUT A 211.

Fact also is, that TeleAtlas have been providing a navigation CD that will run on CD Comands with UK TMC/Dynamic Route Giudance since 2003. So if TeleAtlas can do it, MB could have done it.. but they just dragged their feet saying a better sytem of Dynamic Route Guidance would eventually arrive.

Year after year from 2002 MB said it would be available by the end of the year. And each year they failed.

IF you think I am talking a load of rubbish, then listen to the MB employed people who obviously write on this forum.. and take no notice of me..

I have MB case number going back to 2002 on this issue. I have also received a £800 refund and a free first service from MB because my wifes new C Class DVD navigation did not have working Dynamic Route Guidance working in the UK as it stated in the manual. I have the letter to prove it.

Fact is MB have been dragging their feet, and now someone says they wanted to get it right so there was no recalls... Why change a habbit of a lifetime..

I have spent £145,000 on new Mercedes over the last 4 years, two of them have Comand and are on my drive now...

I am trying to help others by short cutting the bad experiences I have had with MB.. but what is the point if there is going to be so many MB employed people writting stuff on this string..

Just to answer someones earlier question.. The C Claass changed to DVD navigation on the last face lift June 2004, and no it is not the same as the E Class, its bigger brother.. No TV option and different music CD stack unit and a different DVD navigation disc. It also has had it own little faults.. like visual instructions different to audio instructions at roundabouts (20% failure rate), and late instructions to turn left when right on top of an exit...

Anyway.. I am out of here for good.. and thats not in a 211

Steve

 

[Rory]

Bye.

 

[glojo]

Just to answer someones earlier question.. The C Claass changed to DVD navigation on the last face lift June 2004,

Hi Steve
Thanks for answering that.

Regards,
John

 

[MattEly]

Confused as always!

Hi Guys

Communication is such a gift. MB Parts in Brum have been telling me for weeks that the new 211 TMC-enabled DVD has had some problems. I have been told today both by them and my local dealer that MB have now released a flash disc that they have to run through Command before installing the new DVD, to overcome these problems. The dealer has stocks of the new DVDs and the flash software at £219.04 + VAT, Ie £257.37. Apparently takes about 20 mins to flash Command and then everything works perfectly. About to spend an evening trying to justify the cost, and will probably go in for an update tomorrow!

If it fixes the annoying "take the first exit" when it means and shows the third exit at roundabouts I'll be writing to DC (again) for a refund!

Cheers

M.

 

[VBD]

The flash disc is to resolve issues with the comand and not per say anything to do with the new navigation DVD being faulty. Furthermore this flash disc does not need to be run on all versions of the comand. This is not the first flash disc that has been released, remember that mp3 functionality was released as part of a previous firmware upgrade. What the new disc did revealed were issues with the older versions of comand (early models) and to sort these the flash disc was released bringing the firmware on the comands in line with the latest models and hence staility when running the new DVD.

Incidently the next release of the DVD nav will be 6.1 due from June onwards and this will introduce new functionality (hopefully if it passes testing) .

 

[prprandall51]

Hi Guys

... If it fixes the annoying "take the first exit" when it means and shows the third exit at roundabouts I'll be writing to DC (again) for a refund!

Cheers

M.

My 4 golden problems that are going to need to be fixed at 5.1 or I will be writing a letter for a refund, too:
1) Sometimes (1 in 20 times?) when I start Navigation, it thinks I am in the Vatican City (why??? and why not Andora?). I have to reset the country before it works.
2) The car icon frequently lags some way behind the actual vehicle location.
3) Occasionally, the system reports it cannot find the DVD, and it needs a reboot to fix.
4) The roundabout instructions.

All this on a late 2004 car running 4.1 disk. Does anyone else have these problems - I have seen others report (2) and (4), but not (1) and (3).

Philip

 

[saorbust]

Incidently the next release of the DVD nav will be 6.1 due from June onwards and this will introduce new functionality (hopefully if it passes testing) .

Really ? Thats good. I think the update cycle of annually is too long.

Wonder what functionality it will have....

 

[prprandall51]

Really ? Thats good. I think the update cycle of annually is too long.

Wonder what functionality it will have....

Is it good? Nothing hacks me off more than buying something and then finding it is out of date only a few months later, which iw what looks to be about to happen here. At least, it does hack me off if there is no provision for an upgrade price for owners of recently purchased releases.

Many manufacturers offer a subscription package that gets you all the navigation updates for a fixed annual price. Seems like a good idea to me - if the manufacturer is able to issue a reliable, consistent supply of updates, of course.

PHilip

 

[glojo]

Is it good? Nothing hacks me off more than buying something and then finding it is out of date only a few months later, which iw what looks to be about to happen here. At least, it does hack me off if there is no provision for an upgrade price for owners of recently purchased releases.

Many manufacturers offer a subscription package that gets you all the navigation updates for a fixed annual price. Seems like a good idea to me - if the manufacturer is able to issue a reliable, consistent supply of updates, of course.

PHilip

Totally agree and we have been saying this right from the introduction of this system. 2004 saw at least three upgrades, mine was version 3, then there was 3.1, then 4.

Regarding the issue of flashing the COMAND, I dread to think how many upgrades there has been. You mentioned the flash that allowed us to play Mp3's, there was a further flash upgrade that sorted out the file, folder issues that myself and others had a very active part in sorting out. These two examples are perhaps cosmetic, but there has been other improvements within the COMAND.

In years gone by vehicles stayed the same, if you wanted to have the improvements that were seen in more modern examples of your model, then you had to buy the latest version

John