Uber. Good or bad.

[dejongj]

The is a very specific risk and it is when a passenger is being picked-up in the street.

In the event that the passenger is attacked (typically young females catching a ride home in the early hours after a night out and a few too many), the victim can usually only provide vague information about the car or driver, which more often than not would remained untraceable.

And I do remember as a young man after leaving a late night event seeing several nondescript cars parked outside the venue with the drivers saying 'Taxi, sir? Taxi, madam?' etc.

It is this very specific risk, and this one only, which is both very real and very serious.

And the message was that a licensed taxi is safer than an unknown car and driver (though sadly there has also been at least one case where a black cab driver raped several women passengers over a number of years).

But with any form of pre-booking - phone, app, etc - the car and the driver can be identified and traced. So this particular risk does not apply to Uber.

Any other risks are far less tangible - you could argue that black cabs are safer, that their drivers are better drivers, etc etc - but ultimately none of this related to the risk of being raped while drunk by a driver the victim can not identify in a car she can not remember.

I don't think anyone can argue that the black cabs are safer, nor that their drivers are better drivers either. The ONLY argument that they have is that they passed the knowledge. Woopiedoo, yes that was great 15 years ago, but not a big deal nowadays.

There is another risk with pre-booking, it is not unheard of at all that licences taxi drivers pickup their car and sign in, yet then give their car to someone unlicensed who does the pickups. At least with Uber you can easily check that the driver is the driver that is registered (identical twins exempted ).

 

[C43AMG]

Some of the reasons my buddies dislike Uber (and Addison Lee).

Black cab drivers spend years doing the knowledge.

Taxis are hideously expensive.

The taxi had a yearly MOT and another yearly check as well.

It's all more money than Uber drivers etc have to pay out.

Please get your facts right.

Wrong !! We have to have a MOT every six month's and a yearly check by the PCO

Not as much as my S-Class

We are regulated by the Public Carriage Office (PCO) The same as the Black Cabs.

The real reason as mentioned by 95% of the posts is they need to get into the present and not dwell in the past + they need driving lessons every five years !!

 

[Darrell]

Please get your facts right. Wrong !! We have to have a MOT every six month's and a yearly check by the PCO Not as much as my S-Class We are regulated by the Public Carriage Office (PCO) The same as the Black Cabs. The real reason as mentioned by 95% of the posts is they need to get into the present and not dwell in the past + they need driving lessons every five years !!

Are you a taxi driver?

 

[Darrell]

Are you a taxi driver?

And they are not MY facts. Just what my black cab driver mates told me.

 

[ToeKnee]

Just for clarification private hire cars and taxis (black cabs/hackney carriages) are not the same thing but are easily confused. The law is different with respect to insurance, seatbelts, plying for trade and with whom the contract is with to name a few.

 

[markjay]

Why have the Government intervene ...

I was just presenting both sides of the argument.

The original rationale behind the PCO was simply to protect the public.

And it was justified too, if you compare London licensed taxis to Taxi Parisien or NYC taxis (not to mention Kuala Lumpur...) .

This is not to say that the the role of taxis should not be modernised, just that we should think carefully before doing away with a system that served us well for over a century.

 

[Dryce]

Just for clarification private hire cars and taxis (black cabs/hackney carriages) are not the same thing but are easily confused. The law is different with respect to insurance, seatbelts, plying for trade and with whom the contract is with to name a few.

Presumably private hire cars have sufficient coverage in terms of law and insurance to undertake their function and meet the reasonable needs of their public clientele?

And presumably so do black cabs (or equivalent) that ply for hire.

It's not as if this is some new type of trade. All Uber is doing is piggybacking on existing tech and practice - and is a global rather than local brand.

 

[dejongj]

And they are not MY facts. Just what my black cab driver mates told me.

And to be fair on you; that doesn't surprise me one single bit. I listen a lot to LBC 97.3 (although on DAB now not FM ), and lots of taxi drivers come out with the same old incorrect arguments.


Sure there are different laws and regulations. But they should learn to be factual about it.


But most of all, learn what the customers want. I get that black cabs can't provide exactly the same as a private hire vehicle and vice versa. But you know what, perhaps the times have changed and instead of moaning about it, they will have to change and work in a different way.

Another thing, not the fault of Black Cab drivers I think, but whilst the London Taxi looks iconic, it isn't half uncomfortable. My god what a terrible vehicle. Give me Amsterdam any day where I have a nice Tesla S, Audi A8, BMW 7 or Mercedes S as an airport walk up vehicle. Another reason I am a big fan of Uber in London, I have a much more comfortable journey in their vehicles. Depending on my clients or mood, I normally prefer to sit in the back of an E class versus a Prius as well.

Or if this was available in London, I'd book it

https://youtu.be/C0-gUXEkBoo

 

[dejongj]

I was just presenting both sides of the argument.

The original rationale behind the PCO was simply to protect the public.

And it was justified too, if you compare London licensed taxis to Taxi Parisien or NYC taxis (not to mention Kuala Lumpur...) .

This is not to say that the the role of taxis should not be modernised, just that we should think carefully before doing away with a system that served us well for over a century.

Agreed, and I'm not suggesting to do away with London Taxis at all. That should be down to the public whether they choose to use them or not.

 

[Dryce]

This is not to say that the the role of taxis should not be modernised, just that we should think carefully before doing away with a system that served us well for over a century.

Has it served that well - or is it just what we are used to - and therefore is good enough because that's all there was?

I mentioned KL in part because of recent experience - but also unlike the UK the private hire business never seemed to get its act together - so in the UK there are lots of local private hire firms that people are used to using.

I always found the cash side of taxis a pain when dealing with business expenses (both as somebody running them up and somebody sorting out authorisation for reimbursement). This is one area where Uber is a breath of fresh air - and the automated receipting and routing information is much better for business.

In SE Asia there is competitor to Uber called Grab - it does basically the same thing. There's no reason I guess why a similar company can't sort out updating the ply for hire crowd with smartphone tech to compete.

I suspect that going cashless is actually the biggest underlying issue.

 

[C43AMG]

I have been driving people around London since 1968 in various forms. Private Chauffeur, Chauffeur to the Savoy Group of Hotels and since 1985 my own Chauffeuring Company.

They should tell you the correct facts. As far as seatbelts, insurance etc they are controlled by the PCO the same as the Private Hire Drivers. The exception being plying for trade.

In 2003 the Public Carriage Office decided that all Private Hire Drivers had to be licensed. A very good thing, get all the cowboys off the street, those that had rotten cars, no insurance etc.

Since then we have had a licence to drive, which lasts three years, a vehicle licence which last three years, a vehicle inspection licence which last one year a MOT every six months and a CRB check every five years and if you are over sixty five a medical every year and all these licences and checks are not free. Insurance is Hire and Reward which is only given after you have supplied the insurance company with the appropriate licences.

Black Cabs have to renew there Cabs after fifteen years and Private Hire Vehicles after ten years, which really makes sense, another five years for all that extra black diesel pumping out in one of the most polluted capitals.

Just a few facts I thought you would like to know.

 

[Darrell]

Regarding the vehicles themselves and other cities in Europe using plush, more luxurious cars, one of the problems that black cab drivers have is the daft turning circle law.

My buddy has a Vito. To buy new they are £40000+. They have 4 wheel steering that is unreliable.

 

[tangey]

As an occasional travel blog writer, here's an article I wrote three months ago about a comparison I did over a weekend using black cab one way from manchester airport to my hotel , and using Uber for the return journey the next day.

https://insideflyer.co.uk/2016/10/uber-v-manchester-hackney-taxi/

For those that are TL;DR

1) Uber pricing table is significantly cheaper on both on distance and time than the machester black cab rates.
2) Uber can do surge pricing at busy times which changes things dramatically.
3) Handy to just walk out of the airport and jump into a back taxi.
4) Handy to book an uber at the hotel, and sit in the lobby and watch it arrive on the app.
5) Four people are more comfortable in a black cab, than the average Uber car.
6) You don't need payment on your person to use Uber.
7) As there is no in-taxi payment process, the notion of a tip never arises.

My conclusions were that Uber does work and can be cheaper, but it's not a completely clear one-side win.

 

[markjay]

...I always found the cash side of taxis a pain when dealing with business expenses (both as somebody running them up and somebody sorting out authorisation for reimbursement). This is one area where Uber is a breath of fresh air - and the automated receipting and routing information is much better for business.... I suspect that going cashless is actually the biggest underlying issue.

Same here, but I use mostly black cabs via the Hailo app.

The app has details of two of my bank cards - one private, one business.

Whenever I taker a cab I select on the Hailo app if this is a business trip or private trip, and the fare is taken off the relevant card.

I then simply forward the email/invoice to our account department.

So yes cash is an issue, but this element alone is not a reason to favour Uber over black cabs.

I superset that the main reason people prefer Uber over using black cabs via Hailo app or Get Taxi app is simply that Uber are far cheaper. That's it in a nutshell...

 

[dejongj]

Same here, but I use mostly black cabs via the Hailo app.

The app has details of two of my bank cards - one private, one business.

Whenever I taker a cab I select on the Hailo app if this is a business trip or private trip, and the fare is taken off the relevant card.

I then simply forward the email/invoice to our account department.

So yes cash is an issue, but this element alone is not a reason to favour Uber over black cabs.

I superset that the main reason people prefer Uber over using black cabs via Hailo app or Get Taxi app is simply that Uber are far cheaper. That's it in a nutshell...

Not for me at all. So tell me where does hailo work? And where does uber work?

It is nice and hand to have everything in one application where ever I go in the world.

 

[ToeKnee]

I take card payments although I know of many that don't. Approx 33% of this mornings takings were card payments.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Now the problems start. Two of my mates are black cab drivers and I just had a chat via Facebook with one of them. He went crazy at what I did. He has accused me of taking food off his table, using a rogue company that have bribed their way in with their un-qualified drivers and cheap vehicles.

What does the panel think. Uber seem to be peeing off a lot of people all over Europe at the moment.

Well from anecdotal evidence and some facts I gleaned from a Black Cab driver (friend of a friend) it seems Black Cab drivers/owners can gross £150k p.a., leaving them a £100k after expenses and before tax. Not bad, eh? And if correct Black Cabs have a lot to protect.

 

[Darrell]

Well from anecdotal evidence and some facts I gleaned from a Black Cab driver (friend of a friend) it seems Black Cab drivers/owners can gross £150k p.a., leaving them a £100k after expenses and before tax. Not bad, eh? And if correct Black Cabs have a lot to protect.

There aren't many these days that are doing that sort of dough but they do earn fab money. You need to put in some savage hours.

 

[John Jones Jr]

There aren't many these days that are doing that sort of dough but they do earn fab money. You need to put in some savage hours.

A quick bit of maths suggests it's possible but I don't know for a fact if it is obviously.

48 wks x 5 days = 240 x £625 = £150K.

£625 average per day may seem high, then again anytime I used a Black Cab it's £25 a pop. That's only 25 fares per day and I think it's the guts of a tenner or near enough for the first mile.

But the point is one can see there is potential and a real possibility to make a very reasonable living by Black Cabs.

 

[markjay]

A quick bit of maths suggests it's possible but I don't know for a fact if it is obviously.

48 wks x 5 days = 240 x £625 = £150K.

£625 average per day may seem high, then again anytime I used a Black Cab it's £25 a pop. That's only 25 fares per day and I think it's the guts of a tenner or near enough for the first mile.

But the point is one can see there is potential and a real possibility to make a very reasonable living by Black Cabs.

Where are the costs....?

Cab deprecation (or finance), fuel, servicing and repairs, motor insurance, VED, car wash.... commission payable to Hailo / Get Taxi... license fees.... etc.