Undercover police cars as ambulances?

[lynall]

Saw an ambulance (Mondeo estate) pulling over a Corsa last night in Maidstone

Was wondering has anyone else seen this?, the ambulance came up behind the corsa in the outside lane put his lights on the corsa went to move over to let cop past, but mondeo stayed behind corsa until it moved over to the nearside and was stopped, did not see any more as was to far past by then.

Going by the top lights they were all blue didnt register if the ends of the light bar were red as usual.



Lynall

 

[ringway]

Saw an ambulance (Mondeo estate) pulling over a Corsa last night in Maidstone

Was wondering has anyone else seen this?, the ambulance came up behind the corsa in the outside lane put his lights on the corsa went to move over to let cop past, but mondeo stayed behind corsa until it moved over to the nearside and was stopped, did not see any more as was to far past by then.

Going by the top lights they were all blue didnt register if the ends of the light bar were red as usual.


Lynall

Multitasking Old Chap, Multitasking

 

[evdok]

Corsa driver was prob driving reckless hence the ambulance chap stopping him before giving him a free ride to the hospital!.

 

[robert.saunders]

this one?

 

[Dieselman]

I seriously doubt an ambulance car is being used for Police work for a couple of reasons.
1. You wouldn't be required to stop as you wouldn't know it was a Police car and ambulance/paramedic drivers don't have the powers to stop you, and
2. Police and ambulance vehicles are funded differently and have different owners.

Police are funded via County Council and owned by the local Constabulary, Ambulance are Crown property.

 

[popuptoaster]

Sure it was an ambulance? I have noticed some of the Essex police cars livery makes em look very much like the ambulance cars recently.

 

[Swiss Toni]

The vehicle a Police Officer is driving makes no difference as to the legal power to stop another vehicle - any Police Officer in uniform has the power to stop another vehicle.

If what you saw was a member of Ambulance Staff making use of their Blue Lights to stop another vehicle, then the other driver had no requirement in law to stop (so would not commit any offence of failing to stop), the Ambulance Staff had no power in law to do it, so (in theory at least) could be prosecuted for impersonating a Police Officer (pretty unlikely I would have thought, but if you tried it, expect to get prosecuted...!).
The (again pretty unlikely) possible scenario where there would be a legal power, would be if a police Officer instructed the Ambulance Staff to stop the other car, in which case it would be a lawful stop.



Practically speaking, if the Ambulance Staff were doing something responsible (ie not just stopping the Corsa because Corsa drivers annoy them), then I can't see the Cops having any great issue with it (other than to advise against on safety grounds).

Further to that, Ambulance Staff may not be issued with the kind of protective equipment and training the Cops have, so they would be advised against their action - stopping vehicles is one of the more dangerous things Cops do...


And just to add to the legal pudding - A Police Officer in uniform can stop another vehicle even if they are in their own private car, "off duty" (there is no such thing in law, Cops are always "on duty" for the purpose of legal powers), a Cop not in uniform has no power to stop another vehicle (hence the urban myth that they need to wear their hat - they don't, they just need to be wearing the right uniform, which could be black polo shirts for example).

 

[Swiss Toni]

One more thing - plain Traffic Cars - they know you know what sort of cars they use and they know there are little tell-tale signs that you are only likely to notice once you are too close.
There are CID cars (for Carrotchomper) which are just cheapo, plain cars and then there are other cars that you have no hope of spotting, which are nothing to do with Traffic enforcement.

I can't imagine any reason why the Police would be using a marked-up Ambulance vehicle.

 

[fuzzer]

One more thing - plain Traffic Cars - they know you know what sort of cars they use and they know there are little tell-tale signs that you are only likely to notice once you are too close.
There are CID cars (for Carrotchomper) which are just cheapo, plain cars and then there are other cars that you have no hope of spotting, which are nothing to do with Traffic enforcement.

I can't imagine any reason why the Police would be using a marked-up Ambulance vehicle.

so , what are the cars we have no hope in spotting?

 

[Swiss Toni]

so , what are the cars we have no hope in spotting?

Use some Baldrick logic - think of the last vehicle you'd think of and that'll be it.

 

[fuzzer]

Use some Baldrick logic - think of the last vehicle you'd think of and that'll be it.

im thinking one of 3.

1) armed response unit
2) special branch ( altho they always stuck out like a sore thumb in the range rover at the docks at belfast )
3) Safety camera van

 

[219]

This raises an interesting legal point regarding the requirement to stop for an unmarked car displaying a blue light : unless the occupants draw alongside and show a warrant card ( which varies from force to force , so an 'out of towner' might not recognise it as such ) , or overtake and then use a 'police stop' sign in their back window , you could quite reasonably state in any defence you did not realise it was a police car or that you thought they might be impostors up to no good and felt for your own safety that it would be unwise to stop ( there was a case in our area a couple of years ago where two men impersonating police officers in a grey Mercedes fitted with blue lights behind the grille were going around stopping lone women and lecturing them about their driving , the men were wearing white shirts , black ties etc. and could be mistaken for cops by the clueless ) of course it would be wise to at least phone the police and report the 'incident ' .

Oh and as for " plain Traffic Cars - they know you know what sort of cars they use and they know there are little tell-tale signs that you are only likely to notice once you are too close. " , I'd imagine most normal , law abiding citizens would be completely unaware of any such 'tell-tale signs' , I'm thinking of people like my mother or sisters who don't go around having involvement with the police , have probably never , ever been stopped and wouldn't give it a thought .

Finally , getting back to the original topic , as many of you know I work for the Fire Service and have a blue light I can fit on the roof of my car . While I would never normally contemplate stopping anyone for reasons mentioned above , besides it is simply not my job to do so , I can think of a few extreme circumstances where I might just contemplate such action . The sort of example would be if I saw someone driving in such a manner that I thought they were drunk and a danger to other road users , whilst it would be preferable to follow them from a safe distance and alert the police , if it seemed they presented an immediate danger to others I just might feel it prudent to try and stop them , after first phoning the police and telling them what I was doing and why . Maybe the ambulance driver found himself in a situation like this ?

 

[popuptoaster]

If you get a car trying to stop you and you think its diodgy just drive at a nornmal speed to the nearest cop shop, either they are genuine and will continue to follow you, or summon a marked car, or they are not and wont follow you into the cop shop, but you will have had time to get the reg and a description and handily you'll be in the right place to report it, no copper with half a brain will nick you for failing to stop if you dont drive like a looney and are heading towards the nick.

Thats always been my plan anyway, but its never happened to me.

 

[robert.saunders]

Just brake sharply if you're not sure; if Traffic they will not hit you, if imposters, you'll be rear-ended*

*I take no responsibility for the outcome of such a manoeuvre

 

[amwebby]

I very much doubt any police force would impersonate another emergency service, I'm sure it is illegal to impersonate any emergency service.

The Police in Kent though, as in Essex, do drive estate cars with livery that looks like an ambulance at forst glance though.

 

[219]

We have some vehicles in 'Battenberg' livery which look very similar too .

 

[Swiss Toni]

This raises an interesting legal point regarding the requirement to stop for an unmarked car displaying a blue light : unless the occupants draw alongside and show a warrant card ( which varies from force to force , so an 'out of towner' might not recognise it as such ) , or overtake and then use a 'police stop' sign in their back window , you could quite reasonably state in any defence you did not realise it was a police car or that you thought they might be impostors up to no good and felt for your own safety that it would be unwise to stop ( there was a case in our area a couple of years ago where two men impersonating police officers in a grey Mercedes fitted with blue lights behind the grille were going around stopping lone women and lecturing them about their driving , the men were wearing white shirts , black ties etc. and could be mistaken for cops by the clueless ) of course it would be wise to at least phone the police and report the 'incident ' .

Oh and as for " plain Traffic Cars - they know you know what sort of cars they use and they know there are little tell-tale signs that you are only likely to notice once you are too close. " , I'd imagine most normal , law abiding citizens would be completely unaware of any such 'tell-tale signs' , I'm thinking of people like my mother or sisters who don't go around having involvement with the police , have probably never , ever been stopped and wouldn't give it a thought .

Finally , getting back to the original topic , as many of you know I work for the Fire Service and have a blue light I can fit on the roof of my car . While I would never normally contemplate stopping anyone for reasons mentioned above , besides it is simply not my job to do so , I can think of a few extreme circumstances where I might just contemplate such action . The sort of example would be if I saw someone driving in such a manner that I thought they were drunk and a danger to other road users , whilst it would be preferable to follow them from a safe distance and alert the police , if it seemed they presented an immediate danger to others I just might feel it prudent to try and stop them , after first phoning the police and telling them what I was doing and why . Maybe the ambulance driver found himself in a situation like this ?

The principle of your point about being worried about an unmarked car is spot on - and the Traffic Cops wouldn't have a problem with you driving to a public location or nearest Police Station. I have never known them try to show you their warrant card in a moving vehicle.

Plain Traffic Cars - I was talking about You, not your mother

Fire Service Blue lights - agreed, but the point about putting yourself at risk stands - you don't have the training or experience to deal with the aggressive driver who attacks you or - worse still? - the car races off (fails to stop) and then crashes, killing someone. You are somewhat stuffed (technical legal term ).
If it helps, I can say with some confidence that you would be arrested for Causing Death by Dangerous Driving under those circumstances - even if the dangerous driving was by the other party.

 

[219]

I have never known them try to show you their warrant card in a moving vehicle.

I've seen it done once , by CID in an unmarked Morris Marina which didn't have blue lights or anything , about 30 years ago in Edinburgh when they pulled me over after a neighbour of my mate had called to say that 'some young lads were interfering with a car outside her house ' : the car in question belonged to my mate who was in the car with me .

 

[Swiss Toni]

I've seen it done once , by CID in an unmarked Morris Marina which didn't have blue lights or anything , about 30 years ago in Edinburgh when they pulled me over after a neighbour of my mate had called to say that 'some young lads were interfering with a car outside her house ' : the car in question belonged to my mate who was in the car with me .

From a legal point of view, firstly the law has changed since then and secondly if that were to happen now there would be no requirement to stop as presumably the CID folks were not in uniform.

It is not a defence to say "I didn't think they were real Police" against an offence of Failing to Stop btw - but pragmatism does tend to come to the fore.



I guess if Carrotchomper was issued with a Morris Marina, they'd be impressed by the new technology reaching them in the West Country

 

[Dieselman]

: You are somewhat stuffed (technical legal term ).

I guess if Carrotchomper was issued with a Morris Marina, they'd be impressed by the new technology reaching them in the West Country

LOL....

Someones been in the funny pill jar today...