veg oil in e220 cdi?

[anthe220cdi]

Friend of mine currently using veg oil in his E220 CDI and he reckons it causes no probs at all! I am very sceptical to say least. It is an 02 model same as mine. Is it safe?

 

[CRS]

I think it should be safe, although i'm sure technically your meant to pay some sort of tax if your using veg oil to run cars.

 

[anthe220cdi]

Yeah I heard that. Don't mind paying it if veg oil doesn't damage engine. Still works out cheaper than diesel

 

[Spinal]

Original diesel engines were designed to run on vegetable oil (peanut oil if I am not mistaken). Newer engines can have issues with vegetable oil.

I read somewhere that merc engines are so well built that they will handle it without worries... Sainsbury delivery vans work mostly on filtered used oil from their friers...

One issue... cold weather. Veg oil will get very viscous....

There was a thread on this lying around a while back...

 

[glojo]

Friend of mine currently using veg oil in his E220 CDI and he reckons it causes no probs at all! I am very sceptical to say least. It is an 02 model same as mine. Is it safe?

There is indeed a thread on this; Dieselman (whose opinions I hold in very high regard) is a strong advocate. There was also a post by someone that specialises in the research and development of diesel fuel injection systems?? and he was 100% against its use in modern Mercedes engines.

If your prepared to risk damaging expensive (very expensive) parts of the fuel system of your engine, and also want to go against the advice of Mercedes-Benz, then go for it. The warranty clearly states what type of fuel to use, plus of course what not to use.


John

 

[grober]

Is It Safe?

Friend of mine currently using veg oil in his E220 CDI and he reckons it causes no probs at all! I am very sceptical to say least. It is an 02 model same as mine. Is it safe?

Yes, YES, its safe, its very very safe. Just keep that Black and Decker away from my mouth!!!!

Couldnt resist! Dustin Hoffman film fans will understand.

My guess is if you had one of the older mechanical pump engines fine but not so sure about the modern high pressure systems.

 

[Satch]

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=10516&highlight=veg+oil

Think about this from time to time but the prospect of a high pressure common rail system going pop is so horrible never quite got there! If I did would use a 20% mix with diesel as that seems to be held as a "safe" option.

Read some mutterings about even this not being a good idea in EU4 engines with particulate filters though. Residues can bung things up.

READ THIS FIRST:http://vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm

 

[stuart1948]

According to my MB Handbook, you can run on 50% Kerosene and 50% ) Diesel.(Summer) 20% Kerosene 80% diesel.(winter)Kerosen is about 40p per litre.

I have a friend who runs on Kerosene and Vegi oil. 20 ltrs Kerosene to 3 litrs Vegi oil. Done it for years with no side effects. In winter he puts a cup of Meths in it because of the cold effects on the vegi oil vicosity.

Yes you are supposed to pay duty(forms available from the post office)

 

[glojo]

According to my MB Handbook, you can run on 50% Kerosene and 50% ) Diesel.(Summer) 20% Kerosene 80% diesel.(winter)Kerosen is about 40p per litre.

Do you have a CDI powered vehicle and if so could you scan and post a copy of the relevant page please?

John

 

[Spinal]

While slightly OT, this is interesting:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002941349_biodiesel20m.html

SVO has diesel-veggie oil conversion kits:
http://www.svo-kit.com/ (whatever these may actually do, I have no idea... Maybe someone who understands more about engines can have a look at that pic?)

And in correction to my post above, it was not sainsbury, it was Asda: (from the Guardian, Monday Jan 20, 2003)

they have been doing this sort of thing in Germany for years - not simply because it is cheaper, but because of the environmentally beneficial effects of using sustainable fuels made from rape and sunflower seeds rather than fossil fuels. Over there it is a sizeable industry, supported by tax breaks; it is no coincidence that Mercedes and Volkswagen engines are the most cooking-oil tolerant on the market. Indeed Mercedes motors are so accommodating that they will, apparently, run on lard.
...
...
Meanwhile, Asda has announced that as of next year, its fleet of delivery vehicles will be converted to run on fuel made from the waste on cooking oil collected from stores across the country (they fry a million doughnuts a day nationwide, apparently). Though a spokesman was quick to point out that they didn't get the idea from their customers in south Wales. Oh, and they will be paying the duty.

Now, I have some serious issues with someone shoving a lump of lard down my fuel tank, but if you are feeling bold/brave/stupid enough, tell me how it worked (I realise melting it first will get it down, what happens once it congeals in your tank ?)

As for oil; we had this old Toyota pick-up in Africa... It ran on anything really, diesel, kerosene, oil... Its still running now in fact (but oil is the same price as diesel there, so there really is no point... p.s. thanks to the British govt. who send a free tanker of fuel every month as "aid"; cheap fuel is always good )

On a final note, after the holidays I'll probably look for an old diesel banger/engine to try some oil on... Something I can take apart, clean out, run on oil then take apart again and see if anything seems "different"...

Michele

 

[tamrsoft]

This is an area of interest I have been pursuing for some time, veggie oil is not the same as commercially produced bio-fuel, it goes through a chemical conversion process (transesterification) to remove the glycerin content. This process can be applied to waste veggie oil (WVO) which is what ASDA will be doing, I am certain they will not be using filtered WVO without the chemical processing. See following website for more techie details, it gives home guides on performing this process:

(http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html)

Apparently regular veggie oil as well as commercial bio-fuel definitely works well in traditional diesel engines, however I cannot get a definite position from anyone on its use in common-rail systems. It will certainly work but no one will predict what its long term effects will be. Pure veggie oil must certainly give long-term harm to the high tech injectors in these engines.

PS Current Excise Duty on these fuels is around 27p a litre payable when used.

 

[Vlad]

I would be worried about running 100% veg oil in a CDI engine due to the finer tolerances and higher pump pressures.

With veg being more viscous you run a very high chance of the injectors getting clogged and run a higher chance of the pump expiring due to the extra work it will have to do to pump the heavier viscosity veg oil.

I used to run an old W124 300D on veg and it ran really well, if not quieter, as veg oil is heavily oxygenated and therefore burns very well. I used to run on a 50/50 mix and never had a problem in 30,000 miles.

After your first tank of veg you really should change the fuel filter as the higher viscosity veg oil does a good job of scouring all the crud off the fuel line internals which then collects in your filter.

I used to buy 25litre veg oil drums in Costco for @ £0.40 a litre.....if I still had the car I would still be running on veg and doing my bit for the environment !!

 

[Parrot of Doom]

I used to shove veggie oil in my VAG 1.9Tdi all the time, however that engine wasn't a high pressure modern diesel, just a 90's turbodiesel with a good quality fuel pump.

I would be careful about putting veggie in a CDi engine, in this weather you'll almost certainly be ok, but in colder temperatures veggie oil is very thick.

I reckon a 3 litre bottle of veggie oil is a good thing to keep in the boot of a diesel in case of emergency

Oh and legally you have to pay duty on whatever goes in your fuel tank, even if its sugarfree Vimto. Your chances of being caught are very slim indeed but beware that strong concentrations of veggie oil running through an engine produce a smell not unlike fish & chips, and following cars can easily detect it!

 

[se97mlm]

Don't. The lubrification properties are not consistent enough to ensure durability of the pump and injectors. When it gets hot, it's also not very nice. Look at the mess you get in a chip fryer and imagine that bunging up all the nice little orifices in the system.

 

[Tigger]

This is a very interesting site where they have converted a couple of CDi Sprinters amongst others.

http://www.dieselveg.com/

They do two tank conversions where you start and run on diesel until you have reached normal operation temperature. You then switch to veggie oil. 2 minutes before you switch off, you switch back to diesel to ensure you are ready to start on diesel next time.

I personally wouldn't just stick veggie oil in the tank...

 

[steptoe]

. Look at the mess you get in a chip fryer and imagine that bunging up all the nice little orifices in the system.

You'll get the same mess putting the finest diesel fuel in a chip fryer. So thats no good as an example.

 

[glojo]

You'll get the same mess putting the finest diesel fuel in a chip fryer. So thats no good as an example.

Bet the chips don't taste as nice?

John

 

[delb0y]

this works but i havnt tried it in the merc .. i was using a 50/50 mix and it was great smelt abit like a chippy but fine.. i had some links to the tax forms etc incase the boys in blue stop u ... u can register for tax and depending on ur usuage of oil u pay 40p per litre tax its up to u how much u wanna declare ;-) ill try and find the links and post em up

 

[compress ignite]

WVO in the CDI

"Tigger" is correct.

There are systems sold here for about $1500.00 U.S. that include all the
gear to warm the Veggie from the auxillary tank to the I.P. using
engine coolant. A switchover valve prevents you from shuting down the
engine until it's run on diesel.

Your rubber fuel system components must be replaced with Viton or a
similar nitrided rubber.

No body's had the opportuniuty to try a conversion on the E class 320 C.D.I.
we get here.

"Think of a WVO conversion as running a Diesel on candle wax ...You must keep it HOT to
keep it in solution ... thus soluable enough to pass through the fuel pump masquerading
as Diesel fuel."

ONLY after filtration and some wild form of FAT removal!

 

[tamrsoft]

Oh and legally you have to pay duty on whatever goes in your fuel tank, even if its sugarfree Vimto. Your chances of being caught are very slim indeed but beware that strong concentrations of veggie oil running through an engine produce a smell not unlike fish & chips, and following cars can easily detect it!

Sugar free Vimto would be tax free (if you can make it run), the Chancellor only applies Duty when burning hydro-carbon based fuels and for some reason Veggie Oil comes under that category. Interesting to note that most home producers of bio-diesel in continental Europe are not required to pay this duty.