vito 108d timing chain snapped! Please help.

[glyndwr]

OK gents update.....
Removed the head thisafternoon. Examined the head, valves for damage, all ok. Checked the pistons and bores, all ok.
This type of cylinder head has clearance in the event of a timing failure. There are small dome shaped grommets sticking out of the face of the head where the explosion from the firing chamber bursts into the main culinder. The injectors and heater plugs are all located in the explosion chambers and do not protrude at all into the main cylinder area,only these domed shaped distrubuters ( for more of a better word).
Also removed the vaccuum pump to expose the injector sprocket, this all looks ok.
I was hoping to see a timing mark on the sprocket but cannot see anything, which disheartened me alittle thinking about the way to re time the system together after its hopeful repair.
I cannot see any damage to any guides either.
Anyway, that was good news for me.
I wanted to remove the head just in case, and reason with myself which was the best method to proceed.
Ok, now that the head and pistons are ok, then the logical way to go is to try to thread a new chain thro the system.
I am tempted to remove the sump and thread the chain from down past and over the injector sprocket into the guide toward teh crank pulley, around the crank, as now the sump would be off, then thread a wire down the slack side and pull the chain back up over the tensioner guide, and ther rejoin at the cam sprocket once the head is back on.
Any ideas whether this would be the best way forward now gents.
Thanks again, Anthony.

 

[mercmanglen]

HI THERE.JUST BOUGHT A "R" reg. 208D. SPRINTER, RUNS,DRIVES,FINE,ONLY PROBLEM IS.. IT SMOKES BLUE SMOKE BADLY,WITHIN MINUTES FROM COLD,GETS WORSE AS IT GETS HOTTER ,SUSPECT POSSIBLE HEAD GASKET,ALTHOUGH NOT OVERHEATING,SEEMS THERE CAN BE A PROBLEM BETWEEN TIMING CHAIN AREA AND NO,1 CYLINDER,DUE TO GASKET BREAKING DOWN/CORROSION..AND WONDERED HOW TO SPLIT CAM CHAIN ? is there a spring link? OR DO I HAVE TO USE SPECIAL TOOLS.ANY ADVICE WELCOMED. OR CAN IT BE TURBO OIL SEAL?? or valve stem oil seals??? HELLLP!!!!!!!

 

[glyndwr]

Hi mate,

You dont have to break the chain.

It depends on whether you can remove the timing chain guide from the head to the injection pump. The guide is held in place by 2 pins, one on top and one on the bottom of the guide. I couldnt get the pins out, so i split the chain, simply ground the link head and pushed the links out. You can then buy a master link from merc (about £2) and form the link ends yourself or buy a tool and form it with that.

It would be much better if you could remove the pins on the guide, try using a socket over the pin and extract it with a threaded bolt forcing against the head.

My gasket had eroded away between cyl 1 and the timing chain area. Bought a new gasket, measured the bolts, they were ok, and refitted head. All ok now, engine runing fine.

My main problem came when my chain tensioner wasnt assembled correctly and failed, snapping the chaon, and giving me alot more work, but that has all been done now, and everything is ok.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Anthony.

 

[mercmanglen]

Many thanks Anthony for your info,have found out from local M.B. DEALER that you dont have to, your right!! think I will get workshop manual,and try it.... they didnt want to know?? about doing job. suggesting that I put up with it!! You say your head gasket was blown, ?? did it cause same problem that i have?? van runs fine,starts ok ,but going up slighest hill etc. goes foggy behind me!!!! bad excessive smoke,grey/blue,strong smell of oil.etc. I have just had cause to replace exhaust manifold gasket, and whilst manifold was seperated,started up, !! seemed to be blowing oil out of the first port NO.1 cylinder?/ does this sound familiar to your problem?? (right by timing chain) ? Have dragged it around couple of local garages,and no-one has given me a definate diagnosis. Looking at forum, I think its possible that it may be gasket related?? despite running ok?? DID YOURS DO THE SAME? thanks,glen!!

 

[glyndwr]

Hi Glen,

Your problems sound the same as the one i had.

My engine was running pefectly, then on the way home after football training looked in the rear view mirror and saw nothing behind ne other than clouds of blue smoke.

I didnt know what it was, but the head had to come off to see what had happened.

As soon as the herad was lifted it was obvious waht had happened.

The head gasket material between no.1 cylinder and tining chain compartment had simply eroded away, there was no gasket material in that area for about 1" allowing oil to pass into no.1 cylinder. I knew the problem was in no.1 area befre the head was taken off as once the exhaust manifold was removed, ports 2, 3 and 4 were clean but port 1 was soaking with oil.

The only problem i encontered was trying to remove the timing chain guide from the front of the head to the injection mump sprocket. The chain is locked in the guide and cannot come out without the guide being removed.

Obviously time up the crank and cam at top dead centre before you start.

The v groove belt ( fan belt ) tensioner sits on a pin, the centre of this pin is tapped, so best thing is to try to extract the pin by placing a socket ove the pin and use a bolt snd washer and srew the bolt in to the pin, and against the socket, hopefully extracting the socket as you go, mine wouldnt budge, but hopefully yours will.
Do the same for the bottom guide securing pin.

Once the guide is out, then remove the tension off the tensioner, and remove the sprocket of the cam. you can now tie up the chain, and remove the head.

I then removed the inlet manifold, unplugged the heater plugs and vaccuum pipes. On my engine also, there was a pushfit plastic 3/4 elbow on the front of the ehad inbetween heater plug 3 and 4, this plastic elbow is fixed with 2 6mm bolts, remove these and the elbow will pull out of the aluminium housing, as its held in by an o ring only.

There are 18 star stud head bolts of different length, and also 2 6mm capstuds in the timing cover outer face, these also have to be removed.

The head is then ready to be lifted off, and hopefully you will see the gasket worn away like mine.

I consulted with auto data, and the head blots are a check, so if they havent stretched, you can use the old ones. Mine were ok, as i ordered a new set from merc, matched them up, and they were ok, so took the bolts back for a refund.

Bolt torque values are 1st stage 10nm, 2nd stage 35nm, 3rd stage + 180 degrees.

Hope this helps you.

Best regards, Anthony.

 

[mercmanglen]

Hi again Anthony, Thank you for a very informative post!! Your problem is exactly like i am having,I too removed the exhaust manifold,and ran engine,..the oil was only coming out 0f the one cylinder port(closest to front of engine)others were normal, when first started up,seems ok for few minutes,,then within 3/4 mins the fog starts!!! can get away with driving it ,so long as you change up quickly,and at times,barely seems to smoke<<<sound familiar?? where about are you in uk?? as if handy,would prefer you to see,before i start!! saying that weather to cold to be doing anything to drastic,outside in road,at moment. You are the only one that seems to accept that they suffer with this problem!! cheers again. glen.

 

[Neebo]

I don't think any diesel would survive chainbreakage as the compression is so high.engine out job to repair or drop in(well up anyway)a new s/h motor

 

[glyndwr]

Hi Glen,

My head as been off twice in the space of 6 weeks. The first time i done it, it took me about 4 hours to remove the head.

The second time took about 2 hours to get the head off, much quicker with experience. I am a mechanical engineer in electronics by trade but also had a mechanical apprenticeship with british coal, so i do know how to use tools, although auto mchanics is a different speciality.

Honestly, the hardest job i had was removing the exhaust manifiold, the studs were hard all the way out, and tight against the bulkhead, if yours is already off, then you have a good start.

Also, i made the mistake of not removing the tensioner complete, buy only removed the securing cap end that houses the spring and other parts, and thats why my tensioner failed, and ultimately resulted in my timing chain snapping.

Once he head was off, i took it to a friend who owns an engineering workshop, we ran a clock over the head, and it was NOT warped, therefore i did not skim it, as it was not required. I had so overheating or oil in water, or copmression on expansion tank, just oil burning via a gasket erosion failure.

If you have the skills and tools, have a go and do it yourself. I only bought a head gasket (£38 from merc commercial dealer), i did change the valve stem oil seals as well, and lapped the valves back in, decoked the head as well as it was off.

If you cannot remove the chain guide, split the chain and rejoin with a master link, the dealer has them about £2.

I have had the vehicle running now after refitting the head again ( due to the timing chain failure, and i will say its running very smoothly and quietly, and better than it has since i have owned it, and thats since 2001.

I have nigh on given you the steps that i took to fix my problem, the sequence i took to remove the relevant parts in what order, give it a go and try it. I had the view that do i change the engine or fix what i have got, and in my case i have owned it since 2001 and it been really good for me, i knew the bottom end was good, so tok the head off to determine what had failed. Good news was it was only the head gasket.

If yours is smoking badly, and wore as the oil gets hotter, sooner or later your going to have to decice whether to change the lumo or fix, and for the sake of 2 to 3 hours of work, take the head of first, then reassess your options after finding your faults. Hopefully itl will be just the gasket, and you`ll do that for less than £80 incluning new valve stem oil seals and rocker gasket.

I am living in south wales, so too far to see it running for you, but honestly, if your burning oil, its either a failure in the piston / ring area, failure of valve seals, crack in head, or gasket, and if it happened suddenly, like mine did, its not seals.

Hope this helps alittle, and good luck with your decision making.

Best regards, Anthony.

 

[glyndwr]

Hi Neebo,

engine is now running really sweetly, smooth, quiet and burning cleanly. I did have problems removing the timing chain cover due to crap design of bracket holding alternator also fixing o bottom corner of cover, but job went relatively straight forward, and i am now happy with the decision i made to repair rather thsan take a chance on a 2nd hand motor that i dont know history, could have been worse than one i was replacing with.

I knew my engine was still good (head gasket failure after 138000 miles) s to be honest wear and tear.
The timing chain breakage was my fault as i did not refit tensioner correctly.

Now really happy with the way the engine is running.

Thanks.

I don't think any diesel would survive chainbreakage as the compression is so high.engine out job to repair or drop in(well up anyway)a new s/h motor

 

[mercmanglen]

hi again Anthony, thanks again for your time in replying to my problems,very good of you... your right,south wales,could be a fair bit of a run!! you make it sound very easy,so will endeavor to get manuals etc. and attempt it in between showers!!! as soon as the weather seems a bit warmer. I to am familiar with tools,if it was a O.H.V. instead of O.H.C. i would feel a lot more confident,as having done several of ohv... just not tried ohc... first time for everything!!! many,many thanks. will let you know ,,,,,may be a while.lol grateful thanks glen.

 

[mercmanglen]

see your mileage at failure,was 138k..... mine is showing 142k.. could well be exact same fault..... we shall see..cheers again.

 

[mercmanglen]

hi anthony,finally got round to attacking the job....after a couple of hours and a bit of ffffin an blindin got the head off,same promblem a you had,gasket gone between oil circulating and no 1 cylinder, had stuggle getting top pin out at first,thus breaking timing chain guide,in process!! bottom one came out easier. got head set and bolts,and even chain link,just in case..... head /valves etc.all look ok. will get new guide,and hope that it all goes together as well as it came apart..and not to many bits left over!!!!! thanx again for your tips/help as i probably wouldnt have taken it on,but with garages quoting silly prices,,,,what are you supposed to do?? (anything from 500 to 1200)...... reckon to get away with head set,bolts,guide. oil change etc. 150 to 200 .........big saving....... cheers.glen

 

[alexander patie]

i have spoken to a few other insiders and apparently it is relatively common for these to spit out the gasket in the area you describe. should at least be a certain cure, and we are glad you didn't split the chain .

 

[mercmanglen]

Thanks alexander!! yep,found out through forum,and internet, that it is indeed a common problem...if only local M.B. dealer had told me that in first place, dare say that they knew I wasnt going to be spending the sort of money they would be wanting to do job, on a 1997 van, would have been cheaper buying another van!!! many thanks to all....... anyone got a timing chain guide spare?? to fit 2.3 diesel engine.lol.

 

[mercmanglen]

many thanks to both anthony and alexander,as without a bit of confidence given by them,may not have attempted the job!! head off,checked and seemed ok.gasket had been passing oil,into no1 cylinder,as explained,,gasket changed,head bolts replaced,inlet/exhaust gaskets changed. and rebuilt.....started first time and runs a treat!!!!!!! THE FOG HAS CLEARED ,slight oil leak appeared from behind crankshaft pulley,that wasnt there before,but not enough to fret about.. MANAGED TO SORT OUT FOR A LOT LESS THAN THOUGHT!!!!!!! CHEERS,GLEN.

 

[alexander patie]

well done glen, glad you got it sorted.