W124 15" tyres

[WDB124066]

A late UK spec E320 cabriolet with Sportline chassis/wheels from the factory would have been fitted with Michelin 205/60 R15 in 91W rating not 91V. The tyres would most probably have been Michelin MXV3a tyres.


In terms of comparison of the Michelin Energy + tyre to the orginal MXV3A , it gives a softer ride with less steering precision and less sporty handling. Road noise is quieter too.

Is there any way to determine the likelihood of these qualities by using the numbering/lettering systems for classifying tyres e.g. generally a 91 tyre is going to be softer than a 95 tyre, are there other indicators that can be used to select a softer riding tyre, tread wear, temperature or is this not a reliable way of tailoring preferences...???


AFAIAC softer riding tyres are preferred in a Sportline Cab, you can always pump up the pressure a little when you need it to be harder.

 

[scillyisles1]

Is there any way to determine the likelihood of these qualities by using the numbering/lettering systems for classifying tyres e.g. generally a 91 tyre is going to be softer than a 95 tyre, are there other indicators that can be used to select a softer riding tyre, tread wear, temperature or is this not a reliable way of tailoring preferences...???


AFAIAC softer riding tyres are preferred in a Sportline Cab, you can always pump up the pressure a little when you need it to be harder.

Not really - whilst it is generaly true that a tyre with a lower Load Index should give a softer ride than one with a higher load index, it is not always the case when you move between brands. For example Continental tyres , particularly the more established types have a tendency to have a softer tyrewall which in theory should give a softer ride but in practice it does not appear to be true. On one of my other cars I changed from Continental PC2 87H tyres to Michelin Energy Saver 91V and the ride became softer with less road noise.
In terms of treadwear, then this just gives an indication of the rate of treadwear if does not necessarily correlate to ride as higher perfromance (stiffer tyres) often have a lower treadwear. Temperature rating will be AA for tyres in the UK and I assume NZ so no difference there.

A cars suspension is engineered to work best with certain tyre characteristics and at the time of production of these cars, Mercedes worked very closely with Michelin which probably means that Michelin tyres would suit the car best. Unfortunately, Michelin has stopped making the tyres that suited the car best (Pilot HX/MX3VA ) and only offers the Energy Saver in a 91V rating which leaves Continental as the obvious alternative if you want to stick with the OEM 91W rating.

 

[bolide]

A couple of observations: the tyre is a spring so tyre pressures affect ride quality, damping, etc

Changing the tyre sidewall depth by jumping to 17" will make a huge difference - the sidewall will be shorter & stiffer

You can't compare new tyres with old. Once a tyre's been on a few years it's been through lots of heat cycles and is much harder than a new tyre. Also the tread depth make a huge difference to noise. The only way to compare two tyres is to compare then when new - or both equally old, but that's a harder test to organise

German speed ratings from 1994 have, IMHO, little or no relevance to the UK in 2013. Putting tyres with a 168 mph speed rating on a 320 Cab may give you a rosy feeling of self-satisfaction but I am sure that's as far as the benefit goes

As ever with older cars it's best to be tactical and spend the money where it benefits most. On W124s that's in the front suspension. A set of new ARB bushes at £25 will give more far benefit than W-rated tyres

Nick Froome

 

[scillyisles1]

I would agree that in general going to a 17" wheel size with a 45 aspect tyre will make a difference to ride quality. However, depending on the tyre and it's characteristics it may or may not be a huge difference.

The comparision I did was with new tyres not old so the comparision is valid. I would agree that tread depth makes a huge difference to noise - some brands are much worse than others though.
The comparision I did on my w124 Cab where I swapped old low tread tyres (michelin) for new Continental tyres flies in the face of your comments. According to your observations the old tyre should be much harder (ride harder) and noisier and yet the new Continental tyres do give a harder ride with not much difference in noise.
I would agree that the speed ratings do not make much difference in the UK, however in certain EU countries you do have to fit the OEM tyres with the OEM speed ratings. Don't also forget that the speed rating works in conjunction with the load rating to give an indication of the tyres ability to carry load at speed. These W124 Cabs are heavy cars.

I agree that it is important on the W124 to ensure your ARB bushes are in good condition particularly with all the wear they get in the UK from speed bumps/road calming/terrible road conditions.

 

[grober]

One recent aspect of this ride quality/ tyre pressure argument is the tendency of car manufacturers to now routinely recommend much higher everyday tyre running pressures. This I suspect is to maximise MPG at the expense of ride comfort. Of course load handling characteristics do increase with increased pressure but often the figures are far in excess of what is required.

 

[sspeed]

One recent aspect of this ride quality/ tyre pressure argument is the tendency of car manufacturers to now routinely recommend much higher everyday tyre running pressures. This I suspect is to maximise MPG at the expense of ride comfort. Of course load handling characteristics do increase with increased pressure but often the figures are far in excess of what is required.

Grober, I totally agree..
If I run my tyres at the "recommended" pressure then I get a bald centre section pretty quickly.
On my last 3 mercs I have run the tyres at about 4psi less and the tread wears evenly across the width when I do that..

 

[harryk]

I ran Bridgestone Turanza ER300 on mines for 2.5 years/24k miles and still had loads of tread left when I took the car off the road. Couldn't fault them and would definitely buy again..

 

[WDB124066]

Car has new suspension and steering except for steering box so mechanically it is in top order.

PC2's were on it when I bought it and they were bang crash good for quite a while. Went for the Comforcontacts, (EcoContacts I think they call them now...?) as a replacement, big difference in comfort, small difference in turn in = very happy.

Now I have a set of Michelins 95H fitted (purely as sacrificial tyres so the wheel alignment guys could get their act together before the good tyres were put on) and we are back to a bang crash type of ride especially in the cold.

There is no law against fitting a slightly lower speed rating tyre AFAIK in NZL and I think I'd like to try an H set as all things being equal a lower speed rating (combined with a lower load rating, back to 91) should mean a less rigid tyre, at least I would like to hope so.
The alignment guys still haven't got it right so it isn't time to put a replacement set on, but as the PC2's were too firm for the car, PC5's are not available in the Sportline size that leaves the Michelin Primacy LC, http://www.michelin.co.nz/Buying-Guides/Tyre-selector/search2.html but in a V.

I wasn’t sure of the classification of the PC2’s they may have been 94’s or 95’s rather than 91’s so I guess I should try a set out as a comparison with the Michelin LC’s when the time comes. The other Continental Tyres that would fit have a 94 or 95 load index rating which I feel is too heavy.

All this fuss for a tyre seems strange to me but it really does make the difference between an enjoyable drive and something less than desirable in a Cab.

 

[scillyisles1]

Very interesting WDB124066 - I note you have two E320 sportline cabs - are they both the same with Continental PC2 fitted or Michelin? The reason why I ask is that one thing that people always comment about my E320 Cab is how smooth the ride is with none of the crash bang that you describe. So even though the ride on the new Continentals is slightly firmer than on the old Michelins - I do not get the crash bang you describe even on our awful UK potholed roads. I tend to run my tyres at pressures just above the recommended settings too.

The Michelin website for NZ seems to list completely different tyre ranges than available in the UK. The Primacy LC is not available in the UK - and looks like the old Pilot HX in terms of tread pattern/construction - the only Michelin tyre in 205/60R15 91V is the Michelin Energy Saver.

 

[WDB124066]

I don't know because one of the cars doesn't get used very often and I have not tried it on anything except for the P 6000's which it is on now. It is however very smooth on them, has suspension and steering that is 68 000 kms & 17 years old.

I think the reason why we get different Michelin's than the UK is that we have a slightly different makeup to our car fleet than the UK and our temperatures tend to be a notch or two higher than the UK, so maybe we get slightly harder running/wearing tyres than what you'd get in a colder country...??

I am a bit of a hair splitter and actively chase the smoothest ride I can get, so when I say bang crash it is a slight embellishment of the truth. The main point being that on Sportline Cabs especially you can change the characteristics of the car significantly by having the wrong type of tyres fitted, (or too high a pressure) something that I suspect is more relevant for the Cabs than it is for the rest of the range. I am still experimenting, but very much enjoyed the Comforcontact Conti's I had last, only problem is they are not available now and the replacements have load ratings above what is recommended for the car. Could be LC's by default which I think is as close to the Energy Saver you have there, but, I feel it is worth the hassle of a comparison when the time comes - I have a spare wheel set too.

 

[WDB124066]

Here is an interesting comparasion of the Michelin products available in NZL on page 2 - at least.

http://www.michelin.co.nz/export/si...assenger_car/images/Primacy-LC/Primacy-LC.pdf

I have XM1+ on the car now, looking at the graph it looks as though I can expect better comfort and performance with an LC & I'm guessing if I drop the load rating to 91 and the speed index things may be better still.

It is at least comforting to know that Michelin themselves see the XM1+ tyre as being at the harsh end of their range, something to be mindful of with the big Cabs.

 

[darreningram]

I wonder what people think are the best tyres for w124 estate now? I need to change as my conti premium contacts are near the end- Nick had always recommended the premium contact but I notice continental now have 4 options for my estate- premium contact 2 and also 5 as well as sport contact 3 and 5. Anyone have experience and what is the difference between the contact 3 and 5- Nick, if u are about, do u recommend the contact 5 or maybe u feel another manufacturer is better now? Thanks in advance as any personal experience is always appreciated

 

[GP801]

I have Vredestein Quatrac 5 all season tyres on mine. Previously had Premium Contact 2 but needed ones with a winter rating to satisfy local rules in Italy.So far very impressed. Good grip in snow and not noticed any lack of grip in summer conditions. They are perhaps a bit quieter than the Contis.

 

[Artemio99]

2023: any new recommendations for comfort ride on bad surfaces? I am between Goodyear EGP2 and Michelin Primacy 4.