W124 300TE rear sports dampers / car sickness

[mark.porthouse]

Hi All,

I recently bought a 1988 W124 300TE without self levelling suspension.

Basically we all feel a bit car sick in it on twisty roads. We were running an old Range Rover with uprated (towing) suspension where you really felt and heard the road - we were fine in that. Now I'm reminded of riding, as a kid, in a 1970's Jag XJ6 when I coined the phrase Jag-lag to imply car sickness.

The suspension is as soft as our old Citroen XM was, but that one firmed up the damping and springing if you took corners fast or braked or accelerated.

I'm not sure whether it is largely soft damping or the quiet ride that is causing us this problem.

I'm considering getting sports dampers, but I'm not sure that I can get them for a standard ride height estate (particularly the rear). I see them for saloons and coupes, often with short travel for shorter springs.

Are these, for example, suitable:
http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=417656
or
http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=433426

I guess I could go for a front end change only...

I would be grateful for any thoughts on the suspension or the sickness!

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Dieselman]

Probably just that the original dampers are worn out. A new set of standard dampers would probably do the job.
I'd say you need a full set.

 

[bolide]

Are you 100% sure it doesn't have SLS? I would suspect the car has it and it's failed. This normally means the two suspension spheres need replacing

If it doesn't have SLS someone must have removed it. In that case I'd suggest selling it and buying a car that hasn't been messed about with. You could refit the SLS but it would be expensive. You could use second-hand parts but there would be quite a lot of labour involved

IMHO you'll never get an estate to ride properly with retrofit springs & dampers

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[Subyland]

I have never seen a LHD or RHD 124 estate without self-levelling suspension so I'll be very surprised if it did not have it from the factory.
!24 were available with a sports chassis. You may want to fit those firmer dampers.

 

[grober]

There are also heavy duty normal travel bilstein shocks in addition to the shorter "sports" ones. http://www.bilstein.de/cms_website/root/index.php?page_id=32
you will find the part no in the "saloon" section as B36-1385 Since as has been stated the estates all came ORIGINALLY with self leveling for the uk market. AVAILABLE FROM EUROCARPARTS phonefirst to check.

 

[mark.porthouse]

Thanks for all the feedback.

It really doesn't look like it ever had self levelling suspension. There is no sign in the engine bay of anything that would have provided the hydraulic fluid at pressure. It also has headlight beam adjustment which I wouldn't imagine a self levelling car would have. The car is very low spec - it has 7 seats, but nothing else as far as I can tell, no air con, no heated seats, no leather, no orthopeadic or electric seats, only a sliding steel sunroof, no rear compartment heater, I reckon it came with steel wheels as it currently has alloys from a later W124 (not the early type). It has been obviously very well maintained so I would be surprised if someone had taken out the self levelling.

I'm quite happy not to have self-levelling as it means less to maintain.

However, on the Bilstein site (thanks for the link) I can only see shock struts for front axles on the 300TE (non catalyst). Can anyone tell me if the dampers are the same for an SLS W124 as for non-SLS.

When I bought the car about a month ago I did note that one of the front dampers was leaving the car slightly bouncy at that corner.

Does anyone else have trouble with car sickness in these cars?

Cheers,

Mark

 

[bolide]

Like I said, it probably just needs new suspension spheres

There are no rear dampers on a W124 estate. Search this Forum and you'll find lots of info

The presence of headlamp height correction is unrelated to the fitment of SLS. The SLS pump is at the nose of the cam. The reservoir is at the front of the engine bay on the nearside

Take it to a local specialist (Mercedes or old Citroen) and they'll diagnose it in two minutes

Fitting new dampers is way down the list of tasks to do if the ride is poor. Search this Forum for info

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[mark.porthouse]

Hi Nick,

The ride isn't poor at all. It is very soft and floats beautifully over the bumps. I'm just wondering if it is lacking a little damping - or perhaps my taste is for a little more damping.

Regarding what appears to be a lack of SLS: I would say that the ride height at the rear looks spot on as well. When you load up the rear there is no noise after half a minute to indicate that an adjustment is going on to try to level the car.

Does anyone have photos of the engine bay components for self levelling - fluid reservoir, pump, pipes? I can't find any on the web. Unfortunately I don't have access to my car until the end of the week so I can't poke my head around it to look for particular components, but I can compare photos with my memory of the engine bay (which is relatively empty in this vehicle!).

Cheers,

Mark

 

[MangoMan]

Does anyone have photos of the engine bay components for self levelling - fluid reservoir, pump, pipes? I can't find any on the web. Unfortunately I don't have access to my car until the end of the week so I can't poke my head around it to look for particular components, but I can compare photos with my memory of the engine bay (which is relatively empty in this vehicle!).

Cheers,

Mark

Circled in RED is the reservoir.

 

[mark.porthouse]

Hi Mangoman,

Thanks for that - most useful.

From memory that must be the ABS block next to the hydraulic reservoir that you have put the red circle around. I don't recall there being anything there. When I get the car back later this week I will look to see if there are any signs of a reservoir having been there. However, as the engine bay looks very clean I've got a feeling that there will be no trace of one... ...but I could be entirely wrong!

Does anyone know if dampers for an SLS car are different to dampers for a non-SLS car (I'm thinking about what people might know about saloons and coupes)?

Cheers,

Mark

 

[grober]

Totally Different Setup.

The dampers for a SLS car are totally different as they have hydraulic lines attached to them as part of their self leveling function. see http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.as...&GM=717.433&CT=&cat=15U&SID=32&SGR=285&SGN=06

 

[mark.porthouse]

Thanks grober. I wasn't sure if the damper function was entirely separate - which you've shown me it isn't.

I wonder if this is going to make it hard for me to find dampers for a non-SLS estate...

I need to see if the weight of a saloon is much different to that of the estate. It surely must be an extra 50-100Kg, all of which will be at the back end of the car which might mean that I should have non saloon dampers. Hmmm.

Mark

 

[Dieselman]

I don't think you have a car without SLS. When you get it back just have a look under the rear of the car for spheres. You could try loading it up and then starting the engine to see if it rises back to level, also with a person in the boot bounce the back of the car. If it feels hard the spheres are shot.

 

[grober]

I would personally give the heavy duty rear dampers for the saloon/coupe a try first . I think they are the same for both. There is no listing for the estate of course since they are a non standard fitment. The other thing you might try are "air assists" beloved of caravan owners in the past. http://www.airliftcompany.com/al1000.html dont know anything about cost or UK suppliers sorry

 

[mark.porthouse]

Hi Dieselman,

Thanks. I'm very used to diagnosing problems with my old XM's 7 sphere setup with multiple sensors for bringing the extra centre spheres in and out of circuit. There is certainly no problem with any spheres on the car - the ride is great, the ride height looks spot on, there is no sign of self levelling. I will have to look for signs of whether SLS was ever on the car later this week.

Hi grober,

Do you think that the damper mounting points (top and bottom) are the same on the estate as the saloon/coupe? I guess I should worry about the ratio of leverage and other geometry too...

I'm not going to bother about implementing any form of self levelling - I would only benefit from it about 5% of the time, if that.

I wonder if this car was made in India or something! (although 1988 seems early for such production???)

By the way, the only thing on the front end of the camshaft (from memory) is an ignition distributor of some kind, but maybe if there is an hydraulic pump for SLS it isn't directly on the end...

Cheers,

Mark

 

[andy_k]

Do you think that the damper mounting points (top and bottom) are the same on the estate as the saloon/coupe? I guess I should worry about the ratio of leverage and other geometry too...

no they are different


my guess is that somebody has fitted an aftermarket system, you may need to identify that before you start changing parts

Andy

 

[big x]

I had a look at a 1990 300 T brochure and the self-levelling is described as an optional extra. I'm sure all UK spec cars had it fitted so yours might be a German import ?

adam

 

[andy_k]

quote from the 1987 Mercedes- Benz car range brochure

"The T series estate cars are the most Versatile Mercedes-Benz models. Their handling qualities are as good as the Mercedes saloons and they have a generous luggage space and a high payload.

Self levelling suspension keeps the car level even when heavily laden"

no mention of it as an option for estate cars although it was available for saloons if the purchaser had deep pockets.

Andy

 

[grober]

titan ??

There was a company called Titan who did aftermarket replacement suspension units--Coilover-shock units? Might be them altho there may be others etc?? http://titansuspension.com/about.html. Some pictures of the underside of the car might help when you get it back cos otherwise we are just speculating.

 

[grober]

Further research has indicated that for a proper "conversion" to spring /shocks from the self leveling setup the rear springs would require changing as well. Its beginning to sound as if the shocks have been replaced but not the springs. Unfortunately it would also appear that the standard saloon/coupe springs are too tall and would require shortening by chopping off a coil or two. You might be able to use a lowering type spring like H and R or Ventura with suitable adjustment of spring perches but quite bit of experimentation would be required to get the ride height/spring rate correct. I'm beginning to think that the "estate Meister"-- Bolide could be right about this one but lets wait and see.