w124 Air conditioning fixed

[derin100]

Ahh sorry missed that bit, in this case you surely have a fuse or power issue somewhere.

This is what I would have thought.

I also have a C124 300CE which is fitted with a completely non-functioning A/C system yet that hasn't in anyway stopped the heater blower fan from working.

(The one thing I just noticed was if I pull the connector off the temp sensor on the thermostat housing then both fans at the front of the car start up fine).

 

[derin100]

As previously stated really
The fans regulate high pressure gas. The gas leaves the compressor at high pressure and high temperature. The fans kick in to cool the condenser /cool the gas down. This in turn lowers the head pressure of the compressor/ lowers the pressure of the gas.
Ac will still work without the condenser fans running but the high pressure side will blow a leak or the compressor will cook over time

Thanks Wayne.

But why has this also suddenly stopped even the heater blower/fan from working at all?

 

[Terry_]

Sorry I was reading the whole thread and just realised how old it is! You need to check there is gas in the system then suspect the control panel me thinks. It may even just be the blower motor not working????

 

[derin100]

Sorry I was reading the whole thread and just realised how old it is! You need to check there is gas in the system then suspect the control panel me thinks. It may even just be the blower motor not working????

Thanks Wayne.

I was just reading all of this from another forum (which I think you've seen before):

Have a lok at this. I went through these loops on my E250DT and ended up with the low gas charge result!!


A/C test routine


1. Turn Car Off
2. Pull Klima Relay Out
3. Put your multimeter on DC Volts setting
4. Connect the ground terminal of the meter (black color usually) to the battery's negative terminal
5. Connect the positive terminal of the meter to pin number 5 in the socket (Hopefully, you know which pin is 5)
6. You should get close to 12V, if not, the fuse is blown (#7 I think). Replace fuse. Put the Klima relay back in and check a/c again.
7. If the fuse is o.k. and the compressor clutch still does not run, then lets move on
8. Remove the Klima relay. Now connect the negative terminal of the meter to pin number 10 in the socket. (Hopefully you know which is pin 10). Put the positive terminal of the meter on the positive terminal of the battery.
9. Turn on the car and press one of the a/c switches on the push button unit.
10. You should get close to 12V when the a/c switch is on.
11. If you dont get close to 12V then there are one of two possibilities:
a. the push button unit is not sending the correct control signal
b. the pressure switch is not closed
For now, I am ignoring the trivial possibilities that wires or connectors may be broken. We can dive into these once we have some answers to the basic tests.
12. Turn the car off.
13. If you dont get the 12V, disconnect the two cables from the pressure sensor (should be at the drier), and jumper them.
14. Repeat steps 9 and 10.
15. If you still dont get the 12V, the push-button unit is not sending the signal.
16. Turn car off, dont keep the car running for a long time with the pressure switch cables jumpered.
17. If at step 14, you did get 12V, then the pressure switch is not closed
18. If the pressure switch is not closed there could be three possibilities:
a. refrigerant pressure is too low (lower than 2 bar)
b. refrigerant pressure is too high (higher than 30 bar)
c. the pressure switch is bad
you will need pressure gauges to seperate these possibilities.
16. If at step 11, if you did get 12V, then the push-button unit is sending the control signal and the pressure sensor is o.k. and we will move on.
17. If push-button unit is sending a signal and the pressure sensor is o.k. but the compressor clutch will still not run, then need to check the compressor clutch coil resistance.
18. Connect the positive terminal of the meter to pin number 7 in the socket and negative terminal of the meter to negative terminal of the battery.
19. Change the setting of the meter from volts to ohms.
20. You should get a low resistance about a few ohms.
21. If you don’t get a low resistance, need one last test.
22. Get to the compressor and disconnect the connector for the compressor clutch coil (there is a speed sensor cable that connects to the compressor connector also, you have to trace the clutch wire to the compressor connector to pick the right pin on the connector).
23. Put one of meter’s terminals on battery ground and the other terminal on the compressor’s clutch coil pin (polarity does not matter).
24. You should get a low resistance, about a few ohms. If you do get the low resistance at the compressor then compressor clutch coil is o.k.
25. If you get low resistance in step 23 but do not get a low resistance in steps 18-19, then the cable from the Klima relay to the compressor is bad, replace it.
25. If you don’t get a low resistance in step 23, then the compressor coil is open, normally this would require a new compressor.
26. If the compressor clutch coil is o.k. and the cable from the Klima relay to the compressor is o.k. then let us move on.
27. At this point, if the fuse is o.k., and the compressor coil’s resistance and cable are o.k., then jumper pin number 5 and 7 in the socket.
28. Turn on the car and your compressor should come on.
29. Turn car off
29. If the compressor does not come on, there are two possibilities:
a. the fuse is blown
b. the compressor has an internal mechanical problem, is likely seized.
30. No matter whether it is 29a (shorted coil) or 29b (seized), compressor is bad, replace it.
31. If the compressor comes on at step 28, but does not come on when the Klima relay is put back in and the push button switches are on a/c, then the Klima relay is not producing the 12V signal at its pin 7 to drive the compressor.
32. If Klima relay is not driving the compressor at step 31, then there are five possibilities:
a. the temperature sensor is bad
b. faulty throttle cutout microswitch (only for diesel automatic)
c. bad compressor speed sensor
d. bad engine speed sensor
e. bad Klima relay
33. Put the meter back on voltmeter setting. Do this test with engine cooler than 105 deg-C, better when just cold.
34. Put the positive terminal of the meter on the positive terminal of the battery. Put the negative terminal of the meter in pin 12 of the socket.
35. If you get about 12V, then the temperature sensor is bad. I am not sure about the physical location of this sensor but on my 87 260E, it is a 3 pin sensor on the engine I think third from last from the windshield side. You can ask your parts vendor about it.
36. If the temperature sensor is bad, then disconnect the sensor cables, put the Klima relay back, and try you’re a/c. If this was the only bad component, your compressor should start working. But again, don’t keep running like this, replace the sensor as soon as you can. If disconnecting the temp sensor cable does not work, there is still another problem. Remove the Klima relay and move on.
37. Put the positive terminal of the meter on the positive terminal of the battery. Put the negative terminal of the meter in pin 4 of the socket.
38. If you get about 12V, then the throttle cut-off switch is bad. This switch is supposed to be open and only close when the throttle is wide open. I am not sure about the physical location of this switch but you can ask your parts vendor about it. Once again, if you can find this part, you can disconnect the wire, put the Klima relay back and check a/c. If it still does not come on, then there is some other problem and move on.
39. Change the meter setting to measure resistance.
40. Put the positive terminal of the meter on pin 9 of the socket. Put the negative terminal of the meter in pin 11 of the socket.
41. You should get about 350 – 450 ohms. If you don’t get the low resistance but get very high resistance, either the compressor speed sensor is open circuit or the wire is broken somewhere. Do the same test as close as possible to the speed sensor (i.e. on the compressor connector) to rule out a broken wire. Replace sensor if it is bad.
41. If the resistance is o.k., then, jumper pins 5 and 7 on the socket.
42. Change the meter setting to ac volts.
43. Turn on the car.
42. You should get about 0.3V ac at idle of about 750 rpm. If you don’t get the ac voltage, and the resistance was kind of o.k., replace the sensor.
43. Turn off the car.
43. To check engine speed signal, put the meter setting to ac volts
44. Connect one terminal of the meter to pin 1 of the socket and the other to pin 2 of the socket.
45. Turn the car on.
46. For diesel: At idle of about 750 rpm, you should get a voltage greater than about 4V ac. And the voltage should increase with increase in RPM. For gasoline: at idle the voltage should be about 9V.
47. Stop the car
48. If you don’t get the voltage, switch the meter to resistance setting and readout the resistance between pins 1 and 2 of the socket.
49. You should get about 2 Kohms. If you get a very high resistance, check the resistance closer to the sensor to rule out a cut in the cable. Otherwise replace the sensor. Ask the parts person about its location.
50. If in step 15, you determine that the push-button unit is not sending the control signal, replace the push-button unit. This has happened to me once, the electronics driver inside the push-button unit is blown and it will not send the control signal to the Klima relay. What I did is bypassed the electronics and just used the mechanical switches to send the control signals. The downside is that there is no more automodes, so when I feel like it is too cold, I would press the economy switch and I designated that switch to send a signal to cut-off the compressor. So my brain does what the box would otherwise do, have still not fixed the electronics, just a big headache to test this unit once it is out of the car. If you just bought a new one, you can ask for a replacement. Most likely the problem you are having is not in that unit.


I just started working through it but although a very detailed and helpful description it does make some assumptions of knowledge that many of us might not have. Particularly it assumes that one knows the locations of, for example "pin 5" and "pin 10" etc.

I've just done the first step and with the car off and what I'm assuming is "pin 5" I do have 12V.

But I don't know which "pin 10" is for the next step.

The strange is that whatever has happened has taken EVERYTHING out...A/C fans, compressor, heater blower motor all in one go?! Surely, it must be just one thing that has done this?!

Thanks again.

p.s Just noticed your reply....Yes, the heater blower is not working. But this was sudden. Liek there on full one minute...next thing nothing at all?!

 

[mejermy]

Think this is from one of my posts on another forum and relates to exciting times with my LHD E250T. Regarding your concern about prior knowledge/training. Simply have a thorough look in the relay socket (in the case of the pins to which you refer) and you should see that the sockets are numbered. You may need a flashlight, and even a small mirror, but it's not rocket science. Once you identify the target pins you're away.

Bon courage

Malcolm

 

[derin100]

Think this is from one of my posts on another forum and relates to exciting times with my LHD E250T. Regarding your concern about prior knowledge/training. Simply have a thorough look in the relay socket (in the case of the pins to which you refer) and you should see that the sockets are numbered. You may need a flashlight, and even a small mirror, but it's not rocket science. Once you identify the target pins you're away.

Bon courage

Malcolm

Thanks Malcolm!
Getting dark here now so will have another look tomorrow.

I'm now beginning to wonder (in light of one of Wayne's comments) if I've just interpretted things completely wrongly and maybe it is just the blower which isn't working?
(which will also mean I've now needlessly discharged all the refrigerant out of the A/C system! ...Having said that, the pressure was very high when I measured it).

 

[mejermy]

Unfortunately you need to regas the system and add a tracer dye before you can really progress. I believe the air con guys can read the pressure in the system on the ports, but that won't necessarily tell you if you have a duff pressure switch on the drier (cylinder behind port headlamp). By the way, I've seen these with 2 pressure switches, each with 2 wires, and with one pressure switch with 4 wires. I think the first is OEM MB, and the second retrofit, usually DeAvia, but normally done at the dealers before delivery. I wonder whether they used to charge the MB a/c price...................???http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif/bmi_orig_img/icon12.gif

 

[derin100]

Unfortunately you need to regas the system and add a tracer dye before you can really progress. I believe the air con guys can read the pressure in the system on the ports, but that won't necessarily tell you if you have a duff pressure switch on the drier (cylinder behind port headlamp). By the way, I've seen these with 2 pressure switches, each with 2 wires, and with one pressure switch with 4 wires. I think the first is OEM MB, and the second retrofit, usually DeAvia, but normally done at the dealers before delivery. I wonder whether they used to charge the MB a/c price...................???http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif/bmi_orig_img/icon12.gif

I think the system on my E320 is original MB fitted (the one on my 300CE is a Diavia retrofit and looks completely different).

Going to have another look this morning. Any simple ways to check if it really was just a sudden non-functioning heater blower or switch all along? Having slept on the matter I think that's a distinct possibility as Wayne suggested.

Thanks again

 

[shirleydrive]

Hi,

What was the "low side" pressure reading that you report as high. As you are probably aware, low side pressure should be around 30 - 35 psi (2 bar) at ambient temperature and with the engine running. If you are measuring pressure when engine is not running, that is static pressure, you should expect to see 100 - 140 psi (7 - 10 bar).
Best of luck,
Mike

 

[mejermy]

I seem to remember that, if you disconnect the 'pigtail' wires to the drier pressure sensors and short together the 2 wire terminals (do this separately for each sensor) you should trip the auxiliary fans into running.

 

[derin100]

Hi,

What was the "low side" pressure reading that you report as high. As you are probably aware, low side pressure should be around 30 - 35 psi (2 bar) at ambient temperature and with the engine running. If you are measuring pressure when engine is not running, that is static pressure, you should expect to see 100 - 140 psi (7 - 10 bar).
Best of luck,
Mike

Thanks Mike. It was more like over 100 psi at ambient temp with the engine running!
I've decided to book it into a Merc specialist not too far away to get it sorted hopefully. All I can see is myself getting more and more frustrated with it otherwise or just making matters worse.
I've got enough else to be getting on with on my other cars.

 

[shirleydrive]

Hi Derin,

Are you absolutely certain that the compressor clutch is engaging. Your low side pressure is about what you would expect the static pressure to be.
Mike

 

[SL300-24]

Derin
If your heater motor has packed up the air-con will not work either. I recently changed mine for the same reason. You have to pull the motor out and put 12v across it to see if it is working. But before you do that check the relevent fuse. Her is a tutorial. It is quite difficult to replace the bushes I found. I bought a replacement motor from wunderpartz for around £70 and all is fine now.

PeachPartsWiki: Blower Motor Removal