W202 5 spd auto gearbox 1st gear problem?

[philnewmerc]

Hello,

New member here and would value some advice about 5 sp auto box in my C200.

During these cold snaps I've noticed that after being stationary (in 1st gear) for a minute or more and then moving off, the gearbox seems to 'slip' (feels a bit like sliding the clutch in a manual) and also feels like car is driving with brakes binding. But all other changes after that are fine. Also, if not waiting in 1st, i.e. put car in D and set off straight away, then no problems at all - just when stationary for some time.

Car is a 1999 C200 2ltr 5 speed auto, 105K miles, and to my knowledge never had fluid change (but then its not recommended either).

Could it need a top up / anyone experienced similar??

Many thanks in advance for replies. Cheers.

 

[Rovinghawk]

Car is a 1999 C200 2ltr 5 speed auto, 105K miles, and to my knowledge never had fluid change (but then its not recommended either).

After 9 years & 105K miles, I'll recommend the fluid change.

RH

 

[coupe deville]

had my fluid changed [c124] by Mr Ian B Walker and the changes are much more positive now

 

[philnewmerc]

I rang a auto box company and they said that changing the fluid is a waste of money and rarely improves matters on this kind of box. They suggested its purely the extreme cold making the fluid too thick, and if it continues in the warmer weather only then consider a change. However, does a change of fluid really make a noticeable difference or is it just psychological? - "I've spent 125 quid so can definitely tell the difference"

 

[Rovinghawk]

I rang a auto box company and they said that changing the fluid is a waste of money and rarely improves matters on this kind of box. They suggested its purely the extreme cold making the fluid too thick, and if it continues in the warmer weather only then consider a change. However, does a change of fluid really make a noticeable difference or is it just psychological? - "I've spent 125 quid so can definitely tell the difference"

Do you honestly think the fluid has its original properties after this time & mileage? I'd suggest it might deteriorate, get dirty, etc. Think about it.

Does this company make money out of you having a service? Or does it make money out of replacing gearboxes?

Search the forum for 'auto fluid change' and see what the people who've had it done tell you. I drive two manuals, so have no axe to grind either way.

RH

 

[SilverSaloon]

Definatly CHANGE THE ATF!

Customer: "my gearbox is shifting badly - could you change the ATF?"
Gearbox Specialist: "no Sir, they are SEALED FOR LIFE. Probably worn and requires rebuild"
Customer: "OK, here is my £1500"

- change the ATF - i am sure it will make a huge difference.

If your car has a ATF dipstick take it out and check the level, and also smell it to see if its burnt. It should be a nice cherry-aid colour. i suspect it now resembles engine oil!!

i changed my ATF and it did make a difference. I also adjusted some of the adjusters (modulator valve, mechanism etc) and it has made the gear changes muich better. No idea if your gearbox will have the same mechanisms though.

I would though suggest if the problem goes away once the car has reached 80 deg then dont worry too much. Its worth changing the ATF anyway though if there is no history of it and it looks burnt. Make sure you drop the pan though and change the filter though rather than syphon it out

 

[Buggerlugs]

Well, I'm an AT specilaist and in some respects I would agree with what you've already been advised by the gearbox co., however, in your case, I would say that a fluid and filter change would be a good idea. Perhaps the gearbox co. might try this first and then if that does'nt have the desired effect they might be willing to discount the cost of the service from the final repair bill? (Which I'm sure would be substantial BUT considerably cheaper than the dealer!)

I suppose it comes down to how keen they are to accomodate your desire to fix the car as cost effectively as possible, just a thought.

 

[Rovinghawk]

Hello,
would value some advice

But not actually heed it?

RH

 

[Shaun's C280]

After reading this I think I will get my fluid changed also, at the end of the day what does £125 get you these days?

A question for those in the know, is it a possible DIY job?

Scale of 1 to 10 on difficulty please.

 

[Deadhead]

I'm sure that somebody who really knows about this stuff will be along momentarily...

But, in the mean time, my understanding is that MB now recommend transmission fluid changes every 37.5k miles [ie 60,000 kilometers] for later auto boxes - like the 5-speeder in my 2006 C220. It is alleged that this is because the previous "sealed for life" policy meant that in some cases "life" wasn't as long as it could have been.

 

[Shaun's C280]

Sealed for life sounds daft to me, it has moving parts and there is bound to be wear and fragments of metal within, contaminating.

Surely a fluid change is common sense?

 

[Dieselman]

Yes it is for the reasons you mention.
The term was not sealed for life but 'Filled for life'.

As has been said this was accurate, but the life could be short. Mercedes recommendation is that if a tech sees a FFL box with over 80k miles on it and it has a problem look to change the box.

 

[Dieselman]

After reading this I think I will get my fluid changed also, at the end of the day what does £125 get you these days?

A question for those in the know, is it a possible DIY job?

Scale of 1 to 10 on difficulty please.

3/10.

The hardest part is obtaining the proper dipstick if it's a 722.6 5 speed.

 

[Dieselman]

But not actually heed it?

Surely questioning when other advice is given is also reasonable.

 

[Shaun's C280]

Mine is a 4 speed, does that make it more tricky?

 

[Dieselman]

Mine is a 4 speed, does that make it more tricky?

No, it means you already have the dipstick..

 

[Shaun's C280]

Yep its me

 

[philnewmerc]

rovinghawk, roving mad?

But not actually heed it?

RH

Hello All,

Thanks very much for the replies, I am most grateful. Though I must say to rovingpork that there is a wide spectrum of opinion and it is wise to question (not ignore) all advice. And, the car changes beautifully after 2-3 mins on the road.

I understand engine oil has its polymer chains sheared away over time and needs replacing and becomes contaminated with combustion rubbish. But the auto box fluid is largely carrying out hydraulic needs rather than reducing friction like an engine oil - you don't want friction reduction in an auto or you won't go anywhere.

So, as the first time owner of an automatic, and a research engineer specialising in tribology (the science of friction and wear), I thought it best to seek advice from people with empirical evidance. The most telling advice I've heard is that MB have back tracked and now recommend an ATF change. So when I get round to it, I'll get it done.

Many thanks chaps.

 

[Buggerlugs]

Just a little more food for thought Phil......

There is a substantial shearing deal in the torque converter, I would guess at least if not more severe than in an engine crankcase environment, plus in the TC and the main gearbox there are a bunch of Torrington bearings, soft metal bushings and thrust washers along with the friction materials all slowly shedding contaminate particles.......How any OEM can claim that even the most modern synthetic fluids can be immune to notable degradation during a vehicle's service life beats the keks offa me....

 

[Rovinghawk]

Though I must say to rovingpork

Were you bullied at school? eg For name-calling?

there is a wide spectrum of opinion

With lots of folks saying don't change the fluid?

And, the car changes beautifully after 2-3 mins on the road.

So why start this topic if everything's ok?

But the auto box fluid is largely carrying out hydraulic needs

Ever heard of anyone changing hydraulic fluid? I've never heard of 'filled for life' brakes.

So, as............a research engineer specialising in tribology (the science of friction and wear)

Who should presumably have a clue.........

The most telling advice I've heard is that MB have back tracked and now recommend an ATF change.

Why not ring up that auto box place again and have a pop at them for telling you porkies?

RH