W213, subwoofer upgrade possible?
- Thread starter PLuKE
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Mrrickenbacher
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Thanks John,any one know if there’s a plug and play amp,where do you put it and how easy is it going to be
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
still no reply from British companies but ACR AUDIO Audio have confirmed the speakers do fit and they are 33% cheaper including postage. Now all I have to do is find away to install my JBL CLUB speaker or find a one that will plug and play,without breaking the bank
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
ACR AUDIO are in Germany
It's not an easy swap out job really. It's not like the old days sadly.
The problem with stock Mercedes Burmester systems (like the HK ones previously) is actually the crap EQ they programme into the system for you (probably to limit warranty claims from over-driven speaker drivers). The speakers are crap too but they can deliver a reasonable experience.
To make any improvement, you either need to adjust the EQ at source or strip it out with a DSP (like a JL-FIX or Audison Prima) and then add in an amp or amps.
I've done the former and it does improve things but it's not a patch on the latter.
The speakers in the front footwell are just shallow-mount woofers (some people refer to them as subwoofers but all subwoofers are is just woofers which are focused on producing lower frequencies at louder volumes).
What those footwell woofers can achieve is not bad (I'm talking 8" / 20cm ones in the S) but for a significant improvement, you really need to add larger woofers (or subwoofers) elsewhere in the boot or under the parcel shelf or behind the "ski hatch" etc.
Just changing the speakers will improve things but I doubt the benefit will be worth the effort / time / cost. You may as well run a DSP in there, amps and replace the speakers to get the best outcome.
It's not a cheap thing though if you do it properly, unless you do it yourself but even then kit is not cheap, but the results can be very good.
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
I kinda follow what you are saying. The new woofers will arrive next week. I’ll get my son in law to fit them,see what they sound like and take it from there. I do have the JLB club 604 amplifier and I don’t mind buying a sub. The only thing That’s putting me off is that the install looks tricky and I’ve still got the problem of getting an unmuffled sound from a sub in the boot as it’s a bench seat without ski hatch
It depends what frequencies you want to get from the subwoofer which are typically up to around 100Hz which is non-directional and has no detail - unless you intend to run it to higher frequencies but it's not technically acting as a subwoofer then.
Woofers typically run from around 100Hz up to 250Hz > 500Hz, mids do around 250Hz > 500Hz to 2000Hz and then hand over to tweeters up to 20KHz.
So the only time you'd want to install a subwoofer in the cabin is if it is not as powerful or you want to run higher frequencies from it - but then trying to locate it somewhere will be a challenge.
It's a lot easier to get bass into the cabin of a hatchback than the cabin of a saloon.
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
Thanks John, it’s great having knowledgeable support.
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- South Devon
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- C220 (W205) 2015 Bluetec Sport Premium Plus
I have the Burmester surround sound system in my W205 and while at low volume the footwell subs work quite well if you crank it up a bit you get a fair amount of clipping, I have even backed off the bass in the very basic EQ built into the system. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those that has to have a car going "Oomph, Oomph, Oomph, Oomph" as I go down the road but I do like a bit of deep bass extension. In my last vehicle I installed an aftermarket head unit driving the standard speaker set-up with a 600 watt pioneer amp driving a 15" boxed 'VIBE' subwoofer, plenty of bass there but the Burmester system is locked down, I have been told that the signal path is fibre optic rather than copper wire.
I think that is because they are 6" woofers.
The 8" woofers in the S do a lot better but not what you would call voluminous.
I thought all Merc systems, since at least my W211 E55 as possibly before, ran the signal as fibre-optic until the built-in amp.
They all chuck out copper from there to the speakers and that's where you always have to intercept i.e. with a DSP which will correct timing and flatten the crap EQ they put in.
So I don't really understand what they mean by it being locked down as I understood they are all a similar setup.
- Joined
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- C220 (W205) 2015 Bluetec Sport Premium Plus
So, John,
Is it fibre optics or copper wire between the DSP and the amp? If it is copper wire you could use a splitter to "T" off to feed a dedicated subwoofer amp with out affecting the rest of the system.
It's copper between the amp (which is a bit more than an amp - it's an "Audio Gateway") and the speakers (or DSP if you fit one and that is where it would go).
Yes, you certainly could do that as I've done it previously on a W211 E55K.
It sounded quite good actually as the stock speakers in the W211 E55K without HK were, so I read, the same drivers as in the HK system. I never knew for sure but they certainly sounded very good to my ears.
A lot of this depends how far you want to go.
You could always try it and see you are happy with the results.
I know someone else on here who added a subwoofer using a similar principle albeit employed a few other hacks from a post on the MBWorld site.
This was with an C217 S63 and I believe was happy with that - although he stated he didn't keep cars long enough to bother replacing all the other speakers so might have just put up with the remaining speakers as they were!
The only issue there is you still have a crap EQ and this method does nothing to solve that but as long as it sounds good enough to the beholder's ears...
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
Quick update on my quest. I’ve just received a rainbow sub from Germany that is supposed to be plug and play. Now all I’ve got to do is find a way through the plethora of electrics under the drivers footwell to get to the unit. Any ideas ?
I think the driver's side needs the accelerator pedal and driver's seat removing to access it but I can't remember for sure.
This is why I was making the point it is not easy.
Conceptually, it's quite straightforward.
The tricky part is accessing the areas, working out how to remove trim etc. and running cables.
You really need access to the Mercedes WIS to see how trim is removed to access what.
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
I’m beginning to think I’ll have to bite the bullet and take it to an installer. Sounds as if it’s going to be expensive
BertieWooster
New Member
Pretty sure they’re 8s. Audison sell a shallow 8 that they say is a direct replacement and here they are fitted into frames that will drop straight into the existing mounts. Only decision is 1 or 2....
BertieWooster
New Member
I’m too scared to play under there these days; too much interconnectivity these days. I think it was Lenin that said everything is connected to everything else.
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
The rainbow that I’ve just bought from Germany is an 8. I’ve been assured it’s a straight swap. Problem is how do I do it? I never had this problem with my RS2000 L.O.L.
Mrrickenbacher
New Member
I’m also waiting forACR Car Audio to get back to me and confirm the Rainbow 5.25 speakers will fit in the back doors. I’ll then get a price for fitting speakers + amp.
