Wheel Vibration Advise

[hindesbeans]

HELP NEEDED.

Just added these after market wheels to my car and i have to say i think that they are as sweet as can be.

Only trouble is that at 70ish the car starts to vibrate,

the wheels were delivered balanced so this shouldnt be the problem?

although having said that..... when they arrived the offside rear weights (2 of them) had fallen off in transit. i took the wheel to my local tyre fitter and he put on 5 weights ???? ODD i thought

The car went for a 'B' service today and left note for them to check all wheel balances. On returning the car they said that they didnt check balances because they see the same problem with after market wheels doing this time and time again, due to the plastic spigot ring needed to make wheels fit going out of shape at high speed?????? i dont get that?????

Has anyone any experience of this, will it help if i get some alluminium spigots made? should i take the car somewhere else and get all wheels re-balanced?

IS THERE AN ANSWER, I need to get this sorted cos i want to keep the wheels but cant put up with vibration.

 

[dave.robbo]

Stay under 70?

Sorry........... Can't see how it could be a spigot ring going out of shape... They're bolted tightly in place, once fitted..

I'd take them all to have the balance checked, I think.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

The spigot ring is only the to keep the wheel centred whilst being tightened...
to distort it's probable the first nut was rammed tight using an airgun.

Fact is if the wheel is not central the vibration field would be low.... below 30mph, whereas a wheel balance frequency would be high, normally 60-80mph depending on the level of imbalance and the chassis frequencies tolerance level.

The correct method to measure the balance is with the wheel mounted on the balancer by the stud holes (not the centre hole) since this is cosmetically central.

 

[c240yaz]

The spigot ring is only the to keep the wheel centred whilst being tightened...
to distort it's probable the first nut was rammed tight using an airgun.

Fact is if the wheel is not central the vibration field would be low.... below 30mph, whereas a wheel balance frequency would be high, normally 60-80mph depending on the level of imbalance and the chassis frequencies tolerance level.

The correct method to measure the balance is with the wheel mounted on the balancer by the stud holes (not the centre hole) since this is cosmetically central.

Please post the web site link where you bought them.

Agree with the others on spigot rings. Only used for fitting alignment.

I can understand how you feel, as me recently buying replicas, I was also worried about this, but turned out ok.

If I was in your position, I would first contact the seller, let him know your problem. Ask him what you should do to fix, is he prepared to refund your balance cost.?

If that fails, I would KwikFit the balance problem. If they get it wrong, and still vibration, return until they get it right. If they can.

This thread is the type that many others can input their experiences to. I am sure there are many who can contribute ?

 

[dave.robbo]

If that fails, I would KwikFit the balance problem.

I wouldn't!!! Not them!!!

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Please post the web site link where you bought them.

Agree with the others on spigot rings. Only used for fitting alignment.

I can understand how you feel, as me recently buying replicas, I was also worried about this, but turned out ok.

If I was in your position, I would first contact the seller, let him know your problem. Ask him what you should do to fix, is he prepared to refund your balance cost.?

If that fails, I would KwikFit the balance problem. If they get it wrong, and still vibration, return until they get it right. If they can.

This thread is the type that many others can input their experiences to. I am sure there are many who can contribute ?

Excluding the spigot the most common damaging reason for this type of complaint is how the wheel is mounted on the balancer.

The wheels centre is milled and bored to save unsprung weight and development costs.... Accentually the centre hole is "cosmetically central".

 

[c240yaz]

Maybe, but it is not going to help in getting a solution on how to get this balance problem fixed.

Any recomendations ?

Edit) wheels do look good, so does the car. What size are the wheels and the tyres ?

 

[c240yaz]

I wouldn't!!! Not them!!!

Who do you recommend then ?

 

[dave.robbo]

Who do you recommend then ?

Personally? I always use Protyre. Found them to be VERY helpful in the past. Of course, any tyre place/garage is only as good as its workforce, but for me, Protyre have the edge.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Maybe, but it is not going to help in getting a solution on how to get this balance problem fixed.

Any recomendations ?

Peugeot/ Citroen recognized this problem years ago hence their solid centre wheels....So anywhere that can deal with these can deal with you.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>>the centre hole is "cosmetically central".

I've never heard of this before - do you have any sources of this information that you could share with us?

 

[hindesbeans]

Thanks to all that have responded, sorry its taken me so long to reply but ive been super busy all day, but i am at work now so plenty of time to kill

Firstly

Wheels in motion

The wheels centre is milled and bored to save unsprung weight and development costs.... Accentually the centre hole is "cosmetically central".

so what you are saying is to find a place that balances the wheel by securing it to the balancer by the five stud holes not the center hole ? i have never seen this done before, but then i dont make a habit of visiting tyre and wheel centers either. thanks for your help


C240YAZ

Thanks for your kind comments on my car, i love it to bits.

the wheels are 18" deepdish rims with 225/40 on the front and 245/40 on the rear.
I bought them on ebay from a place in scotland that is a shop also not just ebay. see link below

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....m=140240411936&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=004

I will get the wheels balanced using the stud holes and let you all know how i get on, but it will be saturday before i can do this.

Danny

 

[Dieselman]

Wheels in motion

so what you are saying is to find a place that balances the wheel by securing it to the balancer by the five stud holes not the center hole ? i have never seen this done before, but then i dont make a habit of visiting tyre and wheel centers either. thanks for your help

Why not give Tony a go, he's only in Chesham.

I've heard of this issue before being why Peugeot no longer have centre holed wheels. Most tyre centres can't accomodate them.

 

[c240yaz]

Are they split rims ?

 

[hindesbeans]

No they're not split rims, i asked that very same question before i bought them, but he didnt change the description.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

>>the centre hole is "cosmetically central".

I've never heard of this before - do you have any sources of this information that you could share with us?

Specific... no, only historic like the need for spigots or threads where owners are on a everlasting quest to resolve vibration issues.

Here is the Haweka web-site> http://www.agequipment.co.uk/haweka/Home.html makes interesting reading.

Personally i feel the reason this "perfect" method is not used is because a set of "three-four and five" stud adaptors costs over 2K.

 

[hindesbeans]

Thanks Wheels-inmotion i will defo source somewhere local to me that does this kind of balancing

Danny

 

[Number_Cruncher]

>> Here is the Haweka web-site>

Thanks for posting that link.

Centreing problems on the balancing machine will produce a static imbalance, but should still produce a good dynamic balance, so, I would expect poorly centred wheels to tend to produce vibrations at 30 - 40 mph rather than at 70 - 80 mph.

In a broad generalisation, central spigots are just about the only way to reliably centre a wheel. If you rely purely upon the bolts, then tolerance stack ups will cause problems and a lack of repeatability (i.e., I don't think much of Peugeot's logic!).

To explain the point about tolerancing - Each female thread will have a radial and angular tolerance on the hub, and each hole and taper on each wheel will have its radial and angular tolerance - in general, none of these features will actually be *exactly* where the drawing specified their nominal positions. As you tighten up the wheel bolts, each slightly misaligned bolt will fight with the others, and it's likely that none of the bolts will be sitting full square in their tapers, and if you repeat the tightening operation in a different sequence, the location of the wheel would change.

This method of wheel location was actually remarkably similar to the old method of attaching wheels to older British trucks. In the early 80s, a spigot system, with non-tapered, flat washered nuts was brought in which drastically improved truck wheel security, among other things it reduced the incidence of fatigue failures of the wheel studs, which under the misalignments of the old mounting method were loaded in bending as well as in tension.

I can well imagine that worn balancer machine shafts and cones which don't interface with the accurately machined features of the wheel will cause problems, but the Haweka duo collets will avoid that problem - they look really good. I've worked developing machining fixtures and processes with remarkably similar collets used to centre military aero engine disc hubs for machining, and in that application, they worked very well, and very repeatably.

 

[Benzowner]

Many years ago, tyre fitting shops had a machine that could balance wheels on the car, I take it this is no longer available?

http://www.agequipment.co.uk/focus/f388_on_car_balancer.html

don't know where though

 

[hindesbeans]

I Have enquired about balancing with wheels on car and i was told that this is a very old system which isnt as accurate as modern methods, thats what i was told anyway???

Have got car booked in locally on saturday morning to balance all four wheels using the stud holes to center wheel "precision alloy balancing" as it was refered to by my local tyre center, at a whopping £8.49 for each wheel!! apparently it is a much more time consuming process.

Also i contacted the Guys where i bought the wheels from and they agreed that using the above method may help or even solve the problem, but they also mentioned that a 18" wheel as opposed to the 15" wheels i replaced would exaggerate any existing problems with suspention. So this may be the answer also, as on tuesday the car had its B service and an advisory was that near side ball joint socket worn.

Conclusion:- positively narrowing the problem down, just hope it will be resolved eventually