Why do people react when they are in the wrong?

[LTD]

Seriously where have I admitted that?

Driving up the M66 this afternoon and just north of Bury the outside lane merges into the middle lane reducing the road from 3 to 2 lanes. I was in the third lane behind a black VW van as we were passing slower traffic and when he moved over I passed him and started to move into the middle lane just before the outside lane merged.

I had just about got myself into the middle lane when a car on he inside lane pulled out to begin to overtake the car they were behind. The car was moving considerably slower than I and obviously hadn't seen me given how close I was when it pulled out in front of me so I went round it just nipping in before the chevroned area marking the end of the outside lane.

Well I got a full display of horn and lights from the car despite the fact he had pulled out on me..... why do people do that?

It just reminded me that you see it quite often where someone does something stupid and then gets irate at the poor driver they have just nearly caused an accident with.

It's very odd.

Lack of advance vision and poor reading of the road - especially when travelling at speed (3rd lane which is always, yes always, reserved ONLY for overtaking where safe) and your repeated mentions of 'just' and 'nipped'.

If you wish me to proceed, I will.

FWIW - I know for a fact what Derek does for a living and what he has had to endure in his daily grind to earn a coin.

Most of the gut-wrenching and vomit-inducing trauma he deals with is due to people thinking that they acted 'just in time' and 'it's the other guy's fault'.

Nobody has ever been late for their own funeral by taking an extra 5 minutes to make sure they get there.

 

[cb1965]

Lack of advance vision and poor reading of the road - especially when travelling at speed (3rd lane which is always, yes always, reserved ONLY for overtaking where safe) and your repeated mentions of 'just,nearly, nipped'.

If you wish me to proceed, I will.

FWIW - I know for a fact what Derek does for a living and what he has had to endure in his daily grind to earn a coin.

Most of the gut-wrenching and vomit-inducing trauma he deals with is due to people thinking that they acted 'just in time' and 'it's the other guy's fault'.

Nobody has ever been late for their own funeral by taking an extra 5 minutes to make sure they get there.

Before I go any further none of this took place at silly speeds. The road at that point is a very steep gradient which is why at that point it is three lanes (the rest of the M66 is two lanes from Bury northwards), It used to have a crawler lane on the inside, but then they changed it 10 years or so ago so the outside lane is merged not the inside lane. The car that pulled out was probably doing 40mph due to the speed of the car in front of him.

If you look at what I wrote I was in the outside lane overtaking, that is why I was there. When i moved to the middle lane my intention was to pass the two cars on the inside lane and then move to the inside lane myself.

All that really happened and maybe my writing of the situation is poor is that I moved into the middle lane and as soon as I got there the car on the inside pulled out. I reckon the relative closing speed was about 30mph and I could slam on or go round, I chose the latter, but it was a bit tight albeit not that bad really.

I could have run across the chevrons but that area was full of bits of tyre and other debris and I didn't fancy a tyre being lacerated or worse.

If that constitutes me being an accident waiting to happen then so be it! I don't really know what else I could have done! Anyway I obviously deserved the lights and horn action afterwards and I hope Mr. Vauxhall felt all the better for it.

 

[LTD]

So, by your own admission, you were doing 70mph passing a car whilst overtaking a van and approaching chevrons that were virtually upon you ?

You were also, again by your own previous admission, not in the middle lane but were apparently 'just about in' it and, by assumption, thereforehad insufficient space to safely brake so you had to pass ?

Get real. You are driving with undue care and attention and without respect for other road users. Deal with the true facts that I have simply laid out in front of you - and I am not a prosecuting lawyer.

May your God help you if you ever encounter one.

Even worse, I could be in the middle lane.

 

[cb1965]

So, by your own admission, you were doing 70mph passing a car whilst overtaking a van and approaching chevrons that were virtually upon you ?

Yep, 400m away. Terrible isn't it? In rush hour many leave it a lot later than I would/do, but there you go. Oh and btw passed a van and moved to the middle lane where I then expected to pass two cars. I even indicated and everything.

You were also, again by your own previous admission, not in the middle lane but were apparently 'just about in' it.

Which is in it I think. Put it this way all four wheels were between the lines of the lane when Mr. vauxhall started his manoeuvre (with no indication I might add)

Get real. You are driving with undue care and attention and without respect for other road users. Deal with the true facts that I have simply laid out in front of you - and I am not a prosecuting lawyer.

If you say so as after all you know best just like your pal above

May your God help you if you ever encounter one.

Hasn't happened yet, we will see if it does.

Even worse, I could be in the middle lane.

Now seriously, what does that mean? I am really interested in your answer here.

 

[219]

Your interpretations are spot on? LOL! I was there, you weren't yet you know better? You are confusing your personal conjecture with fact. OK then. I think that logic is what a lawyer would have a field day with

I can read and interpret what you wrote . What you wrote , incidentally , has been changed/revised after I made my initial comments . If what you wrote isn't accurate , that is exactly the sort of thing a lawyer would have a field day with in court , and you would have been better not writing in the first place .

All in your opinion ... that I don't agree with one little bit because it's ill informed nonsense in my opinion just so as you know

Having passed numerous advanced driving tests , undergone further training up to advanced instructor level , taught advanced driving for over 10 years , including teaching others to be observers , current as an emergency response driver , regularly attending serious/fatal RTC's ( for which I have completed courses in crash investigation ) where I often see first hand the outcome of people's poor driving , it is rather more than just my opinion and certainly not 'ill informed nonsense' .

Incidentally , lest you think otherwise , my own driving is also far from perfect , but one thing I do not do is making last minute lane changes or other manoeuvres with little margin for error .

Now you are really making me laugh. I am not remotely upset and I am quite happy to admit my driving can be far from perfect, but in this instance I did nothing wrong.

However, when you with your jumped up sense of your own self worth think you can come on to a thread and write your interpretation of an event you were not party to and then lay it down like your word is law you are going to get an argument from me all day long just as you would if you were stood in front of me only then I would be a heck of a lot less polite than I am being here.

So sorry I am not rolling over to your 'massively superior knowledge' of this event, but if that's what you're after you have just picked on the wrong person.

I really could not care less whether you are upset or otherwise : it was you who came on here and started this thread , not me .

It now sounds as though , since not everyone thinks the incident was as one-sided as you appear to , that you are a little more than 'remotely upset' .

Had you , in fact , made contact with the other car , it wouldn't be me you'd be arguing with . I did not come on here looking to start an argument , but you seem unhappy to accept that you played a part in what happened .

That's about the only remotely sensible thinking you have posted on this thread.

Now you have your opinion and I have mine, we can go back and forth forever as far as I am concerned, but it's already getting very boring for everyone else so we could instead leave it there... it's up to you!

It is now late , and I'm going to bed , I have a busy day tomorrow , so stay safe .

 

[219]

Seriously where have I admitted that?

Oh and if I am an accident waiting to happen how come I have driven over 1.5 million miles in my life and never had a claim against me! It's a long wait I guess

Lots of us have driving jobs and cover those mileages .

 

[219]

As a slight aside are the replies on this thread the AMG thing they all warned me about when I joined this forum?

At the end of the day my post is just musing on why a number of people who do something daft then have an attack of the road rages. I don't get it. I don't do road rage, it just seems so pointless. I guess that it's for people with diesels and boring or old cars from what I see.

I , for one , haven't commented on your car : I see both good and bad driving demonstrated in all types of vehicles .

I also don't get involved in road rage , it is not only pointless but can actually easily escalate into serious incidents , sometimes fatalities .

 

[cb1965]

I can read and interpret what you wrote . What you wrote , incidentally , has been changed/revised after I made my initial comments . If what you wrote isn't accurate , that is exactly the sort of thing a lawyer would have a field day with in court , and you would have been better not writing in the first place .

No I'm sorry, but you're wrong. my first post has not been edited in any way.

Having passed numerous advanced driving tests , undergone further training up to advanced instructor level , taught advanced driving for over 10 years , including teaching others to be observers , current as an emergency response driver , regularly attending serious/fatal RTC's ( for which I have completed courses in crash investigation ) where I often see first hand the outcome of people's poor driving , it is rather more than just my opinion and certainly not 'ill informed nonsense' .

Incidentally , lest you think otherwise , my own driving is also far from perfect , but one thing I do not do is making last minute lane changes or other manoeuvres with little margin for error .

I am sure you are very qualified etc., but with all due respect the fact remains you were not there.

I really could not care less whether you are upset or otherwise : it was you who came on here and started this thread , not me .

It now sounds as though , since not everyone thinks the incident was as one-sided as you appear to , that you are a little more than 'remotely upset' .

Sounds to you, as said you're entitled to your opinion. if you think I'm upset... no worries, I can live with that

Had you , in fact , made contact with the other car , it wouldn't be me you'd be arguing with . I did not come on here looking to start an argument , but you seem unhappy to accept that you played a part in what happened .

I agree, but I didn't make contact. I was there and if I hadn't been it wouldn't have happened. That was about the only part I played in my opinion.

 

[LTD]

Now seriously, what does that mean? I am really interested in your answer here.

I might not have adequate time to brake as a result of you drifting into my lane and clip you forcing a spin to your vehicle.

OOPS............................. your fault.

 

[m2287]

Sorry I thought I logged into www.grumpyoldmenwithnothingbettertodo.com for a minute there...

 

[cb1965]

I might not have adequate time to brake as a result of you drifting into my lane and clip you forcing a spin to your vehicle.

OOPS............................. your fault.

Er.... but I didn't cut in on anyone in the middle lane

Anyway I am not sure being hit and spun from behind will automatically be seen as my fault whether it was or not, quite the opposite in fact. A thought that went through my mind this afternoon when the car pulled out on me as it happened.

 

[cb1965]

Sorry I thought I logged into www.grumpyoldmenwithnothingbettertodo.com for a minute there...

**** off we're busy I know what you mean. Ever wish you'd never posted something?

 

[cb1965]

Lots of us have driving jobs and cover those mileages .

Never said otherwise, but if I am such a bad driver I would have expected at least one claim against me in that time. I do my best when driving, not always perfect as I said, but I do actually try.

 

[219]

No I'm sorry, but you're wrong. my first post has not been edited in any way.

I never said you had edited any post , however , you changed your original version of events in post no 13 .

I am sure you are very qualified etc., but with all due respect the fact remains you were not there.

I never claimed to have been there , and made it clear I based my comments on what you wrote .

Sounds to you, as said you're entitled to your opinion. if you think I'm upset... no worries, I can live with that

If you're not upset , then I'm glad of that .

I agree, but I didn't make contact. I was there and if I hadn't been it wouldn't have happened. That was about the only part I played in my opinion.

I don't share your opinion , and I see the results of these kinds of incidents all too often . It is late and I'm not going to debate this any further tonight .

It saddens me that you don't seem able to even consider the possibility that your actions played a part in what was , after all , a 'near miss' .

 

[cb1965]

I never said you had edited any post , however , you changed your original version of events in post no 13 .





I never claimed to have been there , and made it clear I based my comments on what you wrote .





If you're not upset , then I'm glad of that .





I don't share your opinion , and I see the results of these kinds of incidents all too often . It is late and I'm not going to debate this any further tonight .

It saddens me that you don't seem able to even consider the possibility that your actions played a part in what was , after all , a 'near miss' .

Fair enough. Look I don't want to disrespect you or what you do and therefore I suggest we leave it there. Maybe you're right, maybe not. At the end of the day it was a near miss, but at least it was a miss and if it makes me more circumspect about that bit of road so much the better.

As said compared to the antics in rush hour it was mild and it makes me thankful I don't have to do the rush hour thing any longer.

Goodnight and peace

 

[LTD]

Anyway I am not sure being hit and spun from behind will automatically be seen as my fault whether it was or not, quite the opposite in fact. A thought that went through my mind this afternoon when the car pulled out on me as it happened.

You obviously didn't do physics .........

Only hitting a car that is in front of you at an angle will cause it to spin.

Therefore, it would not have been in a position to pull in safely and with due consideration to other road users (ergo. leaving enough room for an emergency braking manoeuvre to be carried out by the vehicle you have passed and pulled in front of).

You are simply not going to win this one on simple maths, physics, law and logic.

Please do go on ...........

 

[Deane x]

The best road rage I have ever been in was with me and some friends in a fiat UNO , we where over taking a car on A12 and a car come right up are ass flashing his lights and giving us the w#nker sign we pull in to first lane and the car pulled behind us still flashing his lights ect , we pulled up the slip lane and the road was packed with cars , the car behind us was still flashing his lights saying get out of your car so my friend which is like 7 foot unfolded him self from the UNO like a lilo the mans face dropped and I could lip read the words oh f#ck with this got back in his car reversed down slip land and back on to A12 ..think he bit off more than he could chew lol ....thought this mite lighten up this thread a bit

 

[meeeb]

Forget why you/they drove like you did... why make generalisations about people based on their motors? In my experience it's only people with fancy cars that believe that stuff...

Because sadly it is a trend.

Until the reply on this thread I hadn't really contemplated what camp the Merc is in ....

I don't do road rage, it just seems so pointless. I guess that it's for people with diesels and boring or old cars from what I see.

Looks like you've joined the trend!

Unfortunately we have only your side of the story and it would be interesting to hear the other.

Although you say that the other driver didn't see you, you have no way of knowing the accuracy of that statement.

What I'm guessing, from long experience of observing these sorts of situations, is that the other driver was a self-appointed guardian of the law who, was irritated by what he wrongly, or rightly, perceived to be your unreasonable driving - 'nipping in' too close to the lane closure - thus causing avoidable danger to others, so he pulled out to block you and prevent you 'profiting' from your manoeuvre.

You may be one of those annoying individuals who always have to cut in front of another vehicle, never slot in behind. I've seen enough of those, the type that when exiting leaves it until the last few yards and slots between my car and the vehicle in front, halving my safety margin, then brakes hard to enter the deceleration lane, all when there's two hundred yards of clear road behind me, which he could have used safely.

What you describe clearly illustrates how a collision can develop when two plonkers come in close proximity.

 

[Rayny]

Sorry I thought I logged into www.grumpyoldmenwithnothingbettertodo.com for a minute there...

You've ruined my day - I really wanted that to be a real web page.

 

[BandyAndy]

Sorry I thought I logged into www.grumpyoldmenwithnothingbettertodo.com for a minute there...

C'mon now, how many of you actually clicked on the link ?