Wildly different figures/claims when remapping an E350 CDI

[TeddyRuxpin]

Hi,

I'm thinking of getting my E350 W212 231BHP remapped. Not something I'd ever normally consider, but I'm gonna stop getting my car serviced by MB and I've realised that they're not actually the best people to take care of the car. Plus driving my dad's 265/620nm E350 a bit has given me the itch.

It seems like GAD and MSL are the main folk for bespoke remapping Mercedes, and offer rolling roads so you can see the results.

After some research, most companies (including the two listed) seem to offer an increase of about 55bhp and 65nm, on their websites.

However, I've seen on another MB forum that GAD sponsor - they show the claiming to add extra +76bhp and +217nm!!

Which seems like a LOT. Is this realistic? Is it safe and reliable? I'm interested in hearing people's experiences with remaps on this engine, especially with these two companies.

They both seem like 'nice folk', I've spoken to MSL re: a quote, but will probably call GAD tomorrow to get one.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[Gazwould]

Serious relaxing of the map torque limiters I expect .

I don't doubt GAD for a second .

I've always wondered with V6 3.0 tdi monsterous torque figures with rear wheel drive Vs an equivalent A4 quattro , guess the traction control is very capable as no complaints .

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Yeah, but why wouldn't everyone else relax the torque limiters too? Almost 4x as much torque is more than you'd expect!

I'm trying to confirm with GAD if you can get these figures without EGR 'deletion' and DPF removal, I don't want to do that.

One of the differences I noticed with the 265bhp/620nm version is that it's easier to make the traction control light flicker at lower speeds (in the dry), than it is on mine, and the car just feels a bit 'lighter' and it's more effortless. It's also a much more refined engine and gearbox than the 231, but that's neither here nor there..

I'd love a 4 wheel drive car with this much torque - my brother has a brand new X3 with the 3L twin turbo 265bhp and 620nm torque (same figures as the E350 265 funnily enough) but, despite being heavy, it has xDrive and a much more modern 8 speed gearbox... flies!

Cheers,

Ed

 

[Gazwould]

Maybe also the 350 is their most popular engine for a Stage 1 remap and they have the experience of them that's second to none thus know and can produce the safe limits .

Some time back they held a 'World record' for a 250 CDI @ 270 bhp but never offered that remap file .

 

[myromeo]

Had my 350 CDI (265) remapped at GAD and The traction control can’t reign in the torque in the damp or wet, very easy to spin the wheels. In the dry it’s a beast and motorway overtaking is laughable, I’ve set the winter tyre mode limiter to 100mph as it climbs so much faster than standard and would easily be way beyond 100 before noticing.

I’d happily recommend GAD but perhaps ask for slightly less low end torque than he give my CLS350 at GAD North! Poor rear tyres...

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Had my 350 CDI (265) remapped at GAD and The traction control can’t reign in the torque in the damp or wet, very easy to spin the wheels. In the dry it’s a beast and motorway overtaking is laughable, I’ve set the winter tyre mode limiter to 100mph as it climbs so much faster than standard and would easily be way beyond 100 before noticing.

I’d happily recommend GAD but perhaps ask for slightly less low end torque than he give my CLS350 at GAD North! Poor rear tyres...

Hey, thanks for the reply! Did you get the EGR mapped out? I’m trying to figure out what the figures look like with no EGR delete, as I got a long text back from them and they do include EGR.

Oh, and did you opt for the rolling road?

I’m still baffled by how much larger GAD’s gains are vs other companies, I’m wondering if it’s because they quote their figures with an EGR removal included. Others say it doesn’t give much gain.

GAD say my 231hp/540nm engine would go to 300hp/720nm, including EGR delete. I’ve asked GAD how much without the delete, but not received a reply just yet.

Thank you!

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Please delete

 

[Mancstar]

Following post, interested in results. Have the same E350 and keen on remap soonish. Decided against using a local guy after realising members always bigup GAD and MSL only.

 

[SmartAmg]

Following post, interested in results. Have the same E350 and keen on remap soonish. Decided against using a local guy after realising members always bigup GAD and MSL only.

Yep I'm following this to, I've got a local'ish mapper near me DC Remapping in Warrington, only 30 mins from me, he gets good reviews, and does exactly what GAD or MSL do, as in
you arrive puts it on the rolling road, to cool down and a full diagnostic check to see if your car has any underlying faults and is ok to be mapped, and you get a before and after dyno readout, I'm very tempted to go to him.The only thing holding me back from GAD or MSL is the travelling. GAD or MSL seem to be the go to people on here,
but MSL is probably a 5 hour
round trip, and GAD Essex is probably a 9 hour round trip.

 

[Mancstar]

Yep I'm following this to, I've got a local'ish mapper near me DC Remapping in Warrington. I'm very tempted to go to him, the only thing holding me back is, GAD or MSL seem to be the go to people on here,
but MSL is probably a 5 hour
round trip, and GAD Essex is probably a 9 hour round trip.

Warrington is not too far from me, decent detailer I've used is there, Neil @ Warrington Car Detailing very reasonably priced ceramic coating offers too.
Keep me updated if you do get it done. Few tried and tested places near me, Unicorn Motor Developments and Top Gear tuning both in Stockport.

 

[ToeKnee]

Have you looked at Celtic tuning? I believe they have outlets throughout the country and have even been used by some of the big names in Mercedes independent garages.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I have, they offer the same kind of gains as everybody seems to quite on their website calculators. They are a bit cheaper at £295 but it is a generic map and is actually taken off the OM642 in a Jeep (the lady on the phone told me that directly). They seemed very friendly on the phone and willing to chat.

GAD are the only company that quote one thing on their website, but in practice, are saying they over deliver on the torque by about 3x.

GAD include the EGR delete as part of the process but you can obviously opt out. I’m wondering if they achieve their high figures due to the EGR delete, and have had some communication with them, but the answer isn’t clear.

I haven’t been a fan of their communication but their figures are just so much higher than everybody else.

 

[Cyclone1]

Hi,

I'm thinking of getting my E350 W212 231BHP remapped. Not something I'd ever normally consider, but I'm gonna stop getting my car serviced by MB and I've realised that they're not actually the best people to take care of the car. Plus driving my dad's 265/620nm E350 a bit has given me the itch.

It seems like GAD and MSL are the main folk for bespoke remapping Mercedes, and offer rolling roads so you can see the results.

After some research, most companies (including the two listed) seem to offer an increase of about 55bhp and 65nm, on their websites.

However, I've seen on another MB forum that GAD sponsor - they show the claiming to add extra +76bhp and +217nm!!

Which seems like a LOT. Is this realistic? Is it safe and reliable? I'm interested in hearing people's experiences with remaps on this engine, especially with these two companies.

They both seem like 'nice folk', I've spoken to MSL re: a quote, but will probably call GAD tomorrow to get one.

Cheers!

Ed

Are you sure it’s only 65nM torque gain?

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Here are the figures quoted by the 4 companies I see quoted the most. I think some of them don't like their prices going out, so I won't post those, send me a private message if you can't be ****d calling round to them all Please note that I've tried to make sure everything is in N/M and not ft/lbs, and these figures are for the 231bhp E350 variant:

GAD Essex Online calc says:

231BHP -> 275BHP (+44)
540N/M -> 600N/M (+60)

I contacted them directly and they quoted me:

231BHP -> 300BHP (+70)
540N/M -> 720N/M (+180!)

There are also loads of results of GAD tuning OM642 engines on another MB owners club forum. So, you can see the difference in the online calc vs the 'real' quote. They are the most expensive, but the figures are very impressive.

Celtic Tuning No rolling road and they are not bespoke mappings really, but

231BHP -> 294BHP (+63)
540N/M -> 644N/M (+104)

MSL Website is currently down! Got my quote via phone call, but cannot guarantee that it was not ft/pd and not N/M as I didn't make a note. I had assumed N/M.

231BHP -> 286BHP (+55)
540N/M -> 605N/M (+65) *OR* 540N/M -> 628N/M (+88)

I really liked whoever I spoke to on the phone, and that sways me a bit towards them. I will probably call them again tomorrow and ask if the EGR makes that much difference.

AMD Tuning Note sure if they have a rolling road or if it's a custom map, but their numbers are quite reserved at:

231BHP -> 270BHP +39
540N/M -> 600N/M +60

So, as you can see, GAD win by a landslide. I wonder if other companies are being as reserved with their online quotes too, or if GAD are simply better/know stuff other companies do not.

 

[Petrol Pete]

First of all I personally would not use a company that does not have a rolling road available to 'prove' the gains they say are achievable. It also looks like you are not going to get your answer on here Teddy, so it seems it is your solemn duty to MBClubUK to book your car in to whoever you choose , pay yer money and let us all know how you get on . .

Take one for the team... as it were.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Yeah but moaning on about it is part of the fun

Thought there'd be many more reports of people that have had it done with different tuners, as the OM642 has been getting tuned for ages!

Would love to know some real world stats from MSL folk, in particular.

 

[Cyclone1]

Here are the figures quoted by the 4 companies I see quoted the most. I think some of them don't like their prices going out, so I won't post those, send me a private message if you can't be ****d calling round to them all Please note that I've tried to make sure everything is in N/M and not ft/lbs, and these figures are for the 231bhp E350 variant:

GAD Essex Online calc says:

231BHP -> 275BHP (+44)
540N/M -> 600N/M (+60)

I contacted them directly and they quoted me:

231BHP -> 300BHP (+70)
540N/M -> 720N/M (+180!)

There are also loads of results of GAD tuning OM642 engines on another MB owners club forum. So, you can see the difference in the online calc vs the 'real' quote. They are the most expensive, but the figures are very impressive.

Celtic Tuning No rolling road and they are not bespoke mappings really, but

231BHP -> 294BHP (+63)
540N/M -> 644N/M (+104)

MSL Website is currently down! Got my quote via phone call, but cannot guarantee that it was not ft/pd and not N/M as I didn't make a note. I had assumed N/M.

231BHP -> 286BHP (+55)
540N/M -> 605N/M (+65) *OR* 540N/M -> 628N/M (+88)

I really liked whoever I spoke to on the phone, and that sways me a bit towards them. I will probably call them again tomorrow and ask if the EGR makes that much difference.

AMD Tuning Note sure if they have a rolling road or if it's a custom map, but their numbers are quite reserved at:

231BHP -> 270BHP +39
540N/M -> 600N/M +60

So, as you can see, GAD win by a landslide. I wonder if other companies are being as reserved with their online quotes too, or if GAD are simply better/know stuff other companies do not.

I definitely wouldn’t say GAD know more than others.

The quotes are there to suck buyers in. For this particular engine the gains from all the companies mentioned will be similar. What type of map you end up with, what it’s origins are and how it performs are what is important. Sounds like there are enough owners with remaps on this engine who are happy. I’d go with MSL but that’s because I’ve used them for years on nearly all of my cars. That’s not too say the others aren’t decent.

Also headline numbers are a guide only, long gone are the days where tuners would state a number and show you miraculously a Dyno graph for you engine, with the exact numbers lol! Always good to do before and after and check the gains, not the headline numbers.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I lean towards MSL too, I'll give them a call tomorrow to see what the real world results are.

However as I mentioned, there are lots of results on another forum, showing that the 300bhp and 700nm figures are not only achievable but they're actually achieving more from these engines, if you believe their dyno. They do indeed show before/after graphs.

 

[DSM10000]

I lean towards MSL too, I'll give them a call tomorrow to see what the real world results are.

However as I mentioned, there are lots of results on another forum, showing that the 300bhp and 700nm figures are not only achievable but they're actually achieving more from these engines, if you believe their dyno. They do indeed show before/after graphs.

At what expense to engine and transmission longevity are these higher figures being achieved?

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

At what expense to engine and transmission longevity are these higher figures being achieved?

Yeah, I'm asking you/the forum that in my first post!! Gearbox is rated to 750nm, but 720nm is getting close to it. I'd happily have 700 instead of 720 Obviously they say the cars can take it with no issues (unless the car already has issues).

I'm specifically interested in the effect of EGR delete in the mapping, and am determined to find the answer!