Wildly different figures/claims when remapping an E350 CDI

[T5R+]

TeddyRuxin - you are getting us all out of the closet now.....

Mancstar/SmartAMG that makes 3 of us in the NW so far. Get a few more and maybe a "group buy"

I would prefer simple rather than EGR/DPF/Exhaust-mods plus would only use a trusted MB modifier. On this point the most respected seem to be Celtic, GAD and MSL (alphabetical order)

GAD - know their stuff but again too far away. Same comment applies to the NE site.
MSL Bradford - essentially a hour+half from me but really poor service. MSL Birmingham = great, but too far.
Top Gear in Stockport - got the impression that would not be interested if any issues plus expensive when compared to GAD/MSL.
Understand "Shane" in Warrington undertakes. Never met nor had work undertaken by them but hear positive stuff.

Think mine is a 252BHP variant. Would like more but but not chasing AMG numbers.

 

[SmartAmg]

[QUOTE T5R+
Understand "Shane" in Warrington undertakes. Never met nor had work undertaken by them but hear positive stuff.
[/QUOTE]
Is that "Shane" at,
DC Remapping?

 

[myromeo]

Hey, thanks for the reply! Did you get the EGR mapped out? I’m trying to figure out what the figures look like with no EGR delete, as I got a long text back from them and they do include EGR.

Oh, and did you opt for the rolling road?

I’m still baffled by how much larger GAD’s gains are vs other companies, I’m wondering if it’s because they quote their figures with an EGR removal included. Others say it doesn’t give much gain.

GAD say my 231hp/540nm engine would go to 300hp/720nm, including EGR delete. I’ve asked GAD how much without the delete, but not received a reply just yet.

Thank you!

I did have my EGR programmed out yes. I give it a lot of thought but opted to disable it purely to improve throttle response. I can’t comment as to what difference it makes vs remap with EGR left alone but I’m certainly impressed with the gains.

i didn’t get the rolling road before/after, I’ve had plenty cars remapped before without and always been happy by how much better they feel. This is no different.

For what it’s worth they estimated around 315hp and 750Nm. it certainly feels like that, perhaps one day I’ll dyno it to find out. Regardless, it’s so much more responsive, pulls hard in every gear and is exceptionally smooth. Overtaking at motorway speeds in insanely easy and yesterday give a TT RS a run for its money, much to my surprise. Of course the TT is the quicker car all round but in real world motorway speeds that wouldn’t result in jail time its more than impressive.

In the wet will spin the wheels at 50mph, if provoked.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

I did have my EGR programmed out yes. I give it a lot of thought but opted to disable it purely to improve throttle response. I can’t comment as to what difference it makes vs remap with EGR left alone but I’m certainly impressed with the gains.

i didn’t get the rolling road before/after, I’ve had plenty cars remapped before without and always been happy by how much better they feel. This is no different.

For what it’s worth they estimated around 315hp and 750Nm. it certainly feels like that, perhaps one day I’ll dyno it to find out. Regardless, it’s so much more responsive, pulls hard in every gear and is exceptionally smooth. Overtaking at motorway speeds in insanely easy and yesterday give a TT RS a run for its money, much to my surprise. Of course the TT is the quicker car all round but in real world motorway speeds that wouldn’t result in jail time its more than impressive.

In the wet will spin the wheels at 50mph, if provoked.

Thanks so much for the feedback! I think I mentioned it, but according to MSL they use the rolling road to tweak the map. I asked GAD if they do the same and the response was:

"the dyno/rolling road is used for before, during and after our bespoke file write - so, yes it’s used for tuning/tweaking "

I'm not bothered about before/after figures, but want them to be able to spot any flat spots etc etc.

I'm sure your car is a beast in any case! I believe that the 7G+ box can take more torque than the 7G in mine.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Here's some 'man maths' for you:

GAD say: "1-3mpg improvement on fuel (we are quite conservative with 1-3mpg....most customers report more than +3mpg)"
MSL quote 3-5mpg improvement.

Let's say you don't use the power every 3 seconds and you get 4mpg improvement. If you do 12k miles a year and use Shell V-Power diesel (at an average of 145.9p/L, and let's say your car goes up from an average of 36mpg over that year, to 40mpg.

If my numbers are right, that means in two years, you'll have saved £518 in fuel, easily enough to pay for the most expensive remap....

 

[T5R+]

[/QUOTE]
Is that "Shane" at,
DC Remapping?[/QUOTE]

Hi, No. It is an independent MB specialist. Will dig out their name in due course and confirm. Sure they are called MB Tech.

Here's some 'man maths' for you:
If my numbers are right, that means in two years, you'll have saved £518 in fuel, easily enough to pay for the most expensive remap....

Excellent. Just a thought......have you factored in new tyres for the inevitable

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Haha... stop it!

 

[myromeo]

Here's some 'man maths' for you:

GAD say: "1-3mpg improvement on fuel (we are quite conservative with 1-3mpg....most customers report more than +3mpg)"
MSL quote 3-5mpg improvement.

Let's say you don't use the power every 3 seconds and you get 4mpg improvement. If you do 12k miles a year and use Shell V-Power diesel (at an average of 145.9p/L, and let's say your car goes up from an average of 36mpg over that year, to 40mpg.

If my numbers are right, that means in two years, you'll have saved £518 in fuel, easily enough to pay for the most expensive remap....

i always fill up with shell v-power diesel. Mpg wise I’m averaging about 30 according to the on board computer... that’s over the last 3000 miles. it’s not great but most my journeys are very short. I do less than 30 miles a week commuting so couldn’t care less! Can’t comment if it’s better or worse after remap, probably worse as i definitely make use of the extra power.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Spoke to a really nice guy @ MSL today, not sure if it was Acid or not, but he seemed to know what he was talking about and in no rush to get me off the phone.

Anyway, it's 65 lbs ft (88NM) increase on the car, not 65NM. So it would take the car from 231/540NM to 286BHP/628NM (+88NM). In the ballpark of a BMW E60/F10 535D.

He also said removing EGR (via software) would make no difference to BHP/torque output, as I expected.

So, it takes the car from the older 231BHP engine, to similar/slightly improved numbers to the 265BHP/620NM engine. He was honest and said he didn't know how another company could extract another 100NM safely from this car.

So again, these torque figures are way lower than GAD, but I've been a little bit put off by my communications with them, so I'd rather live with the lower/safer figures and give business to someone else. Edit: Just realised GAD tuning were banned from this forum for circumventing rules (pretending to be someone else). That says enough for me!

I *am* curious how they manage to extract so much power, if true. To my knowledge, the 7G (not plus) gearbox is only rated to 750nm (?), so taking it to 720 seems risky anyway. Hey ho.

 

[E55BOF]

Try Martin at Pendle Performance in Barnoldswick. Very knowledgeable, very nice bloke, very good reviews. He agreed to remap my Peugeot 508 a few cars back, but in the event declined to do so on checking it out, because there was a small risk that the type of ECU it had might lock itself up and leave me stranded if it was tampered with.

 

[E55BOF]

Spoke to a really nice guy @ MSL today, not sure if it was Acid or not, but he seemed to know what he was talking about and in no rush to get me off the phone.

Anyway, it's 65 lbs ft (88NM) increase on the car, not 65NM. So it would take the car from 231/540NM to 286BHP/628NM (+88NM). In the ballpark of a BMW E60/F10 535D.

Pah! I speet upon your puny leetle moteurs! ML420, bog stock OM629 - 301 hp and 730 nm

(What awkward sod mentioned weight and torque spread...?)

 

[John]

Spoke to a really nice guy @ MSL today, not sure if it was Acid or not, but he seemed to know what he was talking about and in no rush to get me off the phone.

Anyway, it's 65 lbs ft (88NM) increase on the car, not 65NM. So it would take the car from 231/540NM to 286BHP/628NM (+88NM). In the ballpark of a BMW E60/F10 535D.

He also said removing EGR (via software) would make no difference to BHP/torque output, as I expected.

So, it takes the car from the older 231BHP engine, to similar/slightly improved numbers to the 265BHP/620NM engine. He was honest and said he didn't know how another company could extract another 100NM safely from this car.

So again, these torque figures are way lower than GAD, but I've been a little bit put off by my communications with them, so I'd rather live with the lower/safer figures and give business to someone else. Edit: Just realised GAD tuning were banned from this forum for circumventing rules (pretending to be someone else). That says enough for me!

I *am* curious how they manage to extract so much power, if true. To my knowledge, the 7G (not plus) gearbox is only rated to 750nm (?), so taking it to 720 seems risky anyway. Hey ho.

As you state, "safely" is the key here. Sounds like not every tuning company like the one you mentioned would be as careful and would try and make as much power as possible regardless of long term effects, whereas Acid has tried and tested (sometimes to destruction) a lot of the upgrades he sells so he knows what the safe limits are.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Ha,

Yes, I've decided I'm going to do it at MSL... if I'm honest, I'm just waiting for a bit to see if they have any offers going! I am in no rush, and will be getting a wheel refurb in the meantime. I also need to call my insurance company (esure) and see what they say, if it's too much or too much hassle, it will scupper my plans. But obviously I am putting off calling my insurer because that is my definition of hell.

Something to add: I've actually seen John from BFT/MSL who write the maps and also possibly is at the end of the phone in case of problems (I think he left working directly in Birmingham/MSL... and this forum... and is now up not far from Newcastle running BFT) state on this forum that this 231bhp car is getting around 675nm on average, which would be an extra 50nm from the quoted 88nm, which would be really fantastic.

I think it's a case of take it and see...

Cheers,

Ed

 

[John]

Ha,

Yes, I've decided I'm going to do it at MSL... if I'm honest, I'm just waiting for a bit to see if they have any offers going! I am in no rush, and will be getting a wheel refurb in the meantime. I also need to call my insurance company (esure) and see what they say, if it's too much or too much hassle, it will scupper my plans. But obviously I am putting off calling my insurer because that is my definition of hell.

Something to add: I've actually seen John from BFT/MSL who write the maps and also possibly is at the end of the phone in case of problems (I think he left working directly in Birmingham/MSL... and this forum... and is now up not far from Newcastle running BFT) state on this forum that this 231bhp car is getting around 675nm on average, which would be an extra 50nm from the quoted 88nm, which would be really fantastic.

I think it's a case of take it and see...

Cheers,

Ed

After the mods to my E55 my Acid and co., it make no difference to my premium although I was 38 then which probably has an impact (EDIT: if you are a lot younger) and I didn't increase the power by more than 25% (well, it was close to around that so obviously I erred on the side of it being less!).

I know what you mean about hassle though - it's a bit of a PITA doing insurance changes.

Yeah... see how it goes.

The only I had with my mods, which were a lot more significant than just a remap, was down to the intercooler pump being shyte.

After changing for an uprated new pump, never had any problems and I used the power in that car quite a lot!

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Thanks! I don’t have any plans to mod further for performance other than this, I’ve heard that as long as it’s under 20% performance increase, insurers often don’t freak out too much...

Anyway, I’m 37 in March so could be an early birthday gift for myself

Cheaper car insurance has to be one of the only benefits of ageing!

 

[AMGeed]

Ha,

Yes, I've decided I'm going to do it at MSL... if I'm honest, I'm just waiting for a bit to see if they have any offers going! I am in no rush, and will be getting a wheel refurb in the meantime. I also need to call my insurance company (esure) and see what they say, if it's too much or too much hassle, it will scupper my plans. But obviously I am putting off calling my insurer because that is my definition of hell.

Something to add: I've actually seen John from BFT/MSL who write the maps and also possibly is at the end of the phone in case of problems (I think he left working directly in Birmingham/MSL... and this forum... and is now up not far from Newcastle running BFT) state on this forum that this 231bhp car is getting around 675nm on average, which would be an extra 50nm from the quoted 88nm, which would be really fantastic.

I think it's a case of take it and see...

Cheers,

Ed

You won't regret using MSL for your remap.
I had my E63 Biturbo remapped by Acid back in November, and he is very particular not to overstress any car he is remapping. I know its a different engine and performance, but my stock figures were 572bhp and 593ft lbs. After mapping, the dyno figures gave 666bhp and 775ft lbs (over 1000nm) with more gains available if I wanted them. Acid advised the maps on my engine have been turned down to preserve the life of them and I was happy to leave the map as it was.

I'll be contraversial and open myself up to criticism and say I believe GAD underplay the stock figures so the gains look more spectacular. The reason I say this is because almost every car that is put on their dyno gives a figure less than Mercedes quote in their brochures or you can read online in Wiki for instance.
I have been led to believe the opposite is true, and cars leaving the factory are actually producing more than the stated power, AMG's in particular.
That isn't to say that GAD don't give significant gains, and customers appear happy with their choice.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Just sayin’ folks...

 

[SmartAmg]

Just sayin’ folks...

Is that genuine, or you just hoping.

 

[TeddyRuxpin]

Well I didn't photoshop it up for a laugh! It was on their instagram 'stories' feed

They actually have a competition going for free remap work too, but I can't be sharing car tuning stuff on me instagram feed hehe.

 

[Mancstar]

Out of interest how much are MSL charging? Think u have same as mine w212 e350?