1999 C220CDI 2 Injectors gone & new head

[Abbo]

Having looked round the site everyone seems really helpful, so can you please give me some advice? My car stopped on a journey & taken by brilliant AA to dealer. Diagnosis 2 injectors gone no explanation, just £1000. Then head is cracked. Now looking at £3,400 to fix everything. No real explanation, just "wear & tear, these things happen, not uncommon".
Feel very frustrated, let down & broke!

PS Serviced @ 83000 the week before.

 

[Jukie]

Hi, Abbo & welcome to the forum. Sorry to see your first post is a tale of woe!

I've just had to shell out to have my cylinder head removed and all 6 glow plugs drilled out as they were seized. Two had failed so following the advice of people on here and my mechanic (Ray @ S&R), I had all 6 replaced. There was no other way to get the plugs out. MB know about this and it appears to be quite common for the plugs to seize in CDi engines but similar to your situation, they class it as wear and tear. Read that as "easy money maker"! Road Range in Southport are averaging two such jobs a week at a £1000 a pop!! This could be avoided if they applied something like Copper-Slip to the plugs when they first put them in at the factory! I mean, the first thing my dad taught me about changing spark plugs was to put some vaseline round the thread of the new ones!!

Not much help to you, I'm afraid but it shows you're not alone in being frustrated and broke!

 

[silverarrow]

best option is to change glow plugs before they fail ie at 50 or 60 k reason why they stick in is carbon build up thus use good fuel and cleaner and above all rev the engine hard to clean out the rubbish diesels need high revs often if you check the part number of your new plugs they will be different to the old ones merccedes have upgraded the new type thus change before they get stuck in i have read on here that it is best to remove them on a warm not hot block ie heat causes the manifold to expanda little.

 

[cartybeebnet]

108 cdi glow plug problem

It is slightly more comforting to see that MB cars are suffering the similar problems to their vans.Had my 108 cdi(2000)vito serviced 2 weeks ago then told that the head has to come off to replace the glow plugs(it could run into thousands). I have not had it done, but when i picked it up the engine would not rev over 3000 revs.(safe mode apparently)but it was ok when it was taken in for the service? very hard to stomach! what can i do?

 

[C240Sport97]

All you guys with this problem should band together and write a letter demanding some compensation from MB for a latent defect.

 

[NormanB]

I doubt if these items are seizing because of carbon, probably more to do with disimilar metals + alloy head + lack of decoupling between the dissimilar metals.

The only real prevention is regular removal, chase out the female thread with a plug cutter and then clean up male thread and reinstall with suitable decoupler (not sure which is specified but copperslip is probably not it! and could make matters worse).

I would have thought that MB are liable - goods not fit for service (merchantable quality) - try the small claims route or a lawyers letter.

NormanB

 

[Dieselman]

Probably what happened is that the injectors gradually clogged. This caused a squiffy spray pattern which caused diesel to spray onto the head causing locallised overheating, and the crack.
Alternatively the dealer knackered the head attempting to remove the glow plugs.

Always use a diesel additive to keep the injectors clean and lubricated.

 

[silverarrow]

ive been told it is a known problem due to low sulphur fuel ? garages at fault re supply of goods or fuel supplier thus as said before use diesel lube and inj cleaner i use comma diesel injector cleaner seems to add more poke to mid range and less smoke

 

[Dieselman]

Ask your MB dealer for the spec of fuel to be used in your car. If it is ISO 59XX then ask your fuel supplier for the spec of the fuel, it will meet ISO 59XX by law.

Tell the MB dealer...sorry what was the problem, fix the car FOC!

low sulpher fuel can cause pump and injector wear if extra lubricant is not added.

Most diesel additives are cetane and lubricant additives. Good news.

 

[IanT]

This is a bit of a worry - mine has a glowplug dead and there's no mention in the receipts for services to say that any others have been defective in the past.

The car is 3 years and one month old (out of warranty then) and due a service now.

At 162k miles should I expect mine to be seized in and a bill running into £000s?

Shame really that I didn't get the car with more than a day of manufacturer's warranty remaining, as the problem was there when I picked it up (private sale). Although the telltale on the dash indicates there's a plug out, the engine seems perfectly serviceable and only ticks slightly when cold due to the duff plug.

I can't believe that M-B are willing to say that failed injectors and cracked cylinder heads are wear and tear on a modern diesel engine, obviously they are trying to wriggle out of a goodwill repair - they are supposed to assess all mechanical failures to see if they are reasonable, particularly after the warranties have expired.

This has to be worth further pursuit with MB customer services to see why they think it is reasonable to replace the head after 4 or 5 years. How many miles has your car covered?

Ian.

 

[mw_C32]

It is slightly more comforting to see that MB cars are suffering the similar problems to their vans.Had my 108 cdi(2000)vito serviced 2 weeks ago then told that the head has to come off to replace the glow plugs(it could run into thousands). I have not had it done, but when i picked it up the engine would not rev over 3000 revs.(safe mode apparently)but it was ok when it was taken in for the service? very hard to stomach! what can i do?

Hey....
I had exactly the same van,(108 Cdi 2000 model) with exactly the same problem and had to cough up over £2K to get fixed, aparently they have to take out the engine to get the head off. gutted gutted gutted..

I did not realise it was so common as mine was done over a year ago I was led to believe it was extremely rare.... now I feel even more ripped off
Hope you can get some help with the cost as none was forthcoming for me..
I used it for a couple of weeks in "safe mode" until I got so fed up I had the work done.

 

[SamR]

E220CDI 39k miles, glow plugs+1 injector

Hi, just taken my car back again due to lumpiness in engine and also the glow plug light has come on. The car is still under warranty, 3yrs up 21/12/04. The first time the MB dealer said it was fine and no fault. Then glow plug light came on and I demonstrated the lumpiness. Today, they have confirmed that one injector needs changing and I also have to pay £195 for a set of glow plugs. I'm told the glow plugs are not warranty items and need changing from time to time, the equivalent of spark plugs in a petrol engine!

1) Would changing just one injector be a reasonable thing to do, or should the whole set of four be replaced?
2) Do I have a case at all for the glow plugs to be changed under warranty?

I only bought the car 2 months ago, otherwise it's great.

 

[Dieselman]

It would be true to say that glow plugs are a service item, however can the dealer or MB point you in the right direction as to where it says they aren't covered under the terms of he warranty.
If the car has only covered a few miles then you might get a goodwill repair assistance toward the costs.

If only one injector is faulty then only one requires replacing.

The current crop of Bosch diesel components appear to be totally crap and unable to stand use for the purpose designed.
All you can do as a user is make sure you use an injector cleaner to keep the injectors clear and lubricated.

 

[Vlad]

Re the guy with the cracked cylinder head.....make sure that once they have taken the head off they show you exactly where it has cracked...if its around the glowplug then create merry hell.

To have a cylinder head go at a relatively low mileage is damned unluckey...but as Dieselman says if you have had a partially blocked injector creating a hot spot then thats another story I'm afraid

Good luck

 

[SamR]

Gentlemen, thank you for your advice... As the car does many short journeys to school and back, I will start putting in an additive. Cheers
Sam

 

[glojo]

I am biting my tongue over the additive issue and 'warranty'

However I am slightly surprised that the warranty has expired because the car is over 3 years old??

I will quote from Mercedes-Benz latest version of MobiloLife page 10

Warranty or Goodwill Repairs
(requiring more than two working hours)

Up to 4 years*

If you visit a Mercedes-Benz Service Centre for a warranty or goodwill repair requiring more than two working hours, MobiloLife takes effect. You will find details of the individual services in the table provided.

*MobiloLife is valid for the new vehicle for an initial period of 2 years. Thereafter, MobiloLife is renewed everytime a service is carried out at a Mercedes-Benz Service Centre and is valid until the next service is due. For warranty and goodwill repairs this applies up to a maximum of 4 years

Now taking the head off I would assume would meet the criteria of 'two working hours'. In my experience service centres have been most helpful PROVIDING you have complied with ALL the requirements of MobiloLife.

It is NOT the Service Centre's money that will pay for the repair, they just have to confirm with Mercedes-Benz that your service book is in order and they 'might' check that you have NOT put any additives into the fuel.

I must apologise for harping on about this 'hot potato' of additives, no one has to convince me on the rights or wrongs of it. I am merely stating the terms of the warranty. If you put ANY additive into the fuel then the warranty conditions are 'limited'. It does not say 'some' or 'might be alright'.

It is possible that you might get away with using some of these excellent 'cleaners' and get your claim approved. BUT you cannot complain if the claim is refused on the grounds that you have put any type of additive into your fuel.

I wish you luck with the repair,
Regards,
John

 

[Dieselman]

It looks like SamR is just about to test the good old Mobilo Life out then.

It would also appear that using no additive is causing problems and engine damage. This is getting to be a tough call.

 

[glojo]

It looks like SamR is just about to test the good old Mobilo Life out then.

It would also appear that using no additive is causing problems and engine damage. This is getting to be a tough call.

It certainly looks that way, but unfortunately we do not know the history of SamR's vehicle.

I am pleased that my post is being taken in the way it was meant and I can understand your comments.

I would also love to hear any comment\observations from our resident fuel pump expert.

Numerous Police Forces and Ambulance Service's use the Mercedes 316CDI, S211 320CDI and the Vito van with CDI engine. They will certainly not put additives into the fuel and they sometimes do more mileage in a year than some private cars do in 10 years. I suppose being 'thrashed' helps clean out the engine??? They certainly cannot be over revved. (Clarkson demonstrated what happens when he accidentally changed from 5th to second gear)

The S211's that I know of are doing 90 - 100000 miles per year and are serviced by the local Mercedes-Benz dealers as per ASSYST. The vehicles are bought back by Mercedes-Benz at a guaranteed price after 3 years. So Mercedes-Benz MUST be very confident of their product. (Iam only aware of the buy back agreement being applied to the S211's)

Regards,
John

 

[SamR]

Hi, Mine's a December 2001 E220CDI estate avantgarde (silver) with 39k miles, owned by me for past 2 months. Bought from a lady owner aged 60! Though she was wealthy and had a number of people drive it from chauffeur to gardener! So I can't be particularly sure regarding its heritage. It has two MB services to its history, so I'm hopeful it's good mechanically overall. It was scuffed on the bumpers etc, and nudged on the boot (no parking aid), so not lovingly looked after. It returned 50 mpg according to the puter on a run to Birmingham and back (to herts) on cruise control at just under 80mph. I'm collecting the car tomorrow, so will ask about the extended warranty including exclusions and also about Mobilo life (I'd never heard of it). This is my second Merc, my last was a C230K which I bought at 38months old (36k miles)and just sold 4.5 yrs later with 109k miles and absolutely no problems (well a couple of minor oil leaks that I left) save for ABS sensors on wheels that put the gearbox in emergency mode.

Kind regards

Sam

 

[glojo]

Hi, so will ask about the extended warranty including exclusions and also about Mobilo life (I'd never heard of it). This is my second Merc, my last was a C230K which I bought at 38months old (36k miles)and just sold 4.5 yrs later with 109k miles and absolutely no problems (well a couple of minor oil leaks that I left) save for ABS sensors on wheels that put the gearbox in emergency mode.

Kind regards

Sam

Hi Sam,
Thank you very much indeed for the prompt and informative reply.

Unfortunately MobiloLife only applies to vehicles that have a full, complete Mercedes-Benz service history.

It sounds like you have a very nice car, but sadly my post about MobiloLife does not apply.

Good luck with the repair though
Regards,
John