3-year old fine...

[Spinal]

So today I got a fine... well, no I didn't... I better start from the beginning...

In 2006 I visited Italy a few times; quite a few actually...

Today I get a letter from "European Municipality Outsourcing" asking for just over 100 euro's for "circulation in spite of the restrictions imposed by the muncipal decree fro the prevention of noise pollution"; infraction dated in November 2006...

Now, I'm fairly sure in the U.K. authorities have a deadline to get you the fine, and I was under the impression that in Italy they had a year to do so.

Additionally, the bottoms states: "The present notice is not a notification of of violation and therefore it permits the receiver to make the due payment in amicable circumstances thus avoiding the consequences of a notification according to the International Convention in force with your country regarding the "notification abroad of administrative documents""

The letter is dated from about a week ago... but frankly, I can't remember if I was in Italy in november 2006 (nearly 3 years ago)...

I'm very tempted to ignore it, (I'm not even sure that it's a legitimate letter... but searching google for E.M.O. seems to bring up people suggesting it is).

Ideas? Comments? Advice?
M.

 

[C240Sport97]

ignore unless you still have the car which incurred the fine AND you intend to drive the same car to Italy in the future

 

[jaymanek]

there was a similar thread a while back.... cant find it now...

I think the time limit, even here, is extended if they cant track you down.

 

[Spinal]

Forgot to mention; the car was a rented car...

The rental company has not charged my CC (I've just checked)...

Had a browse through Italian law; it seems like they used to have 5 years to issue the fine, but in December 2007 that was reduced (retroactively) to 2 years... but I'm not sure...

M.

 

[Spinal]

Did some more reading...

It seems like the goverment still has 5 years to get the fine to you (from the infraction date); but if they use an outside company that company has 2 years (from when they get the job, not from the infraction date) to get you the fine....

It's not that I want to evade paying for my mistakes, I just feel that it's unfair to be presumed guilty... and even more unfair to wait 3 years (so I can totally forget where I was or what I did!)

M..

Edit: It gets more confusing..

La prima cosa che bisogna sapere, e' che all'atto dell'infrazione stradale l'ente (Vigili Urbani, Carabinieri...) deve notificare il verbale entro 150gg dalla data dell'infrazione, con apposita notifica ai sensi dell'art 140 cpc.

I read that as meaning that they have to get the fine to me within 150 days... right?

 

[Druk]

What 'noise pollutuon' decree could you possibly infract whilst using a hire car?

 

[Druk]

This
"La prima cosa che bisogna sapere, e' che all'atto dell'infrazione stradale l'ente (Vigili Urbani, Carabinieri...) deve notificare il verbale entro 150gg dalla data dell'infrazione, con apposita notifica ai sensi dell'art 140 cpc."

Comes out of Babelfish as............


"Before what that must know, e' that all' action dell' street infraction l' agency (Municipal policemen, Police officers…) it must notify the verbale within 150gg from the date dell' infraction, with appropriate notification according to dell' art 140 cpc."

So it seems like you are correct in the 150days.

 

[DITTRICH]

Traffic violations in Italy - restricted traffic zones in Florence

Try the above for an explanation.
At first I thought "scam" but maybe not it seems.
Note the time allowed to serve notice on the "offender".

Les

 

[Spinal]

In Italy, the authorities have up to one year after they have obtained the offender's details to issue a traffic ticket to an offender in a foreign country (unlike in Germany, for example, where there is a three month limit). Italian bureaucracy being what it is, the ticket usually does take a year or more to arrive. The first notice will be a "friendly" letter that arrives unregistered. The second notice will be registered.

Yups... exactly that, I got my unregistered "friendly" letter...

I wonder though... when did they bother getting the data from the car rental company? I guess fairly recently, which would mean within the year...

I think I'm going to write a fairly heated complaint letter and send it to the local consul & someone in Rome (I'm sure my parents still have contacts even though they are retired) and pay the fine...

NOT a happy bunny!

M.

 

[crockers]

How do they know you have received this letter......wait until a registered one comes -- if it does.

Why not phone the hire car company and ask what is going on??? Plead ignorance and don't let on you can speak Italian...see what they say.


EDIT:- Just read the link in post 8.....Florence is now off my holiday list....

 

[Sp!ke]

Assuming your credit card number has changed since 2006, I'd be very tempted to return to sender.

If they want to play games like this, why shouldnt you.

 

[DITTRICH]

Assuming your credit card number has changed since 2006, I'd be very tempted to return to sender.

If they want to play games like this, why shouldnt you.

My thoughts entirely.

I have seen some complaining about this on various forums - german, french, english, american...

Strangely enough, our american cousins seem to get most wound up about this.
One irate gentleman suggested:-

1 writing "f*** the pope" on the notification
2 S****** in the envelope

..and posting it all back to Italy. Mind you, he collected 11 tickets for a 14 day holiday...Way to go Homer!

Les

 

[jaymanek]

this is de ja vous... I cant find the thread as using "fine italy" brings up 20 pages... I thought our search used to have an option to search for all words used not just either or..

 

[SimonsMerc]

I was recently stopped by the police at Schipol Airport, who took my passport and told me that I couldn't proceed without paying a traffic fine dated 2002! I was 99% sure that the fine wasn't mine - it was for a local car, and I simply don't rent cars in Amsterdam - but it had my full name and the address I was living at then. I challenged it, and the bureaucratic process is still going on. Frustrating as hell.

 

[crockers]

I was recently stopped by the police at Schipol Airport, who took my passport and told me that I couldn't proceed without paying a traffic fine dated 2002! I was 99% sure that the fine wasn't mine - it was for a local car, and I simply don't rent cars in Amsterdam - but it had my full name and the address I was living at then. I challenged it, and the bureaucratic process is still going on. Frustrating as hell.

Can you see our police doing that??? Nice to see though that the UK police can now fine foreign motorists on the spot...about time.

on the spot fines

 

[janner]

This is a previous thread about a Spanish scam. Yours could be genuine but likely to be a scam. I'd be suspicious if there was no detail on the ticket ie. road name, date and time. Check it out thoroughly before you even think about paying it.

 

[yachtman]

What 'noise pollutuon' decree could you possibly infract whilst using a hire car?

using the horn?


(tongue in cheek)

 

[jaymanek]

This is a previous thread about a Spanish scam. Yours could be genuine but likely to be a scam. I'd be suspicious if there was no detail on the ticket ie. road name, date and time. Check it out thoroughly before you even think about paying it.

thats the one!

 

[Beetnik]

I've got one from a visit to Pisa in October 2007, issued in August 2008 and sat in my pending tray even now. 'Circulating in restricted traffic zone without authorisation'. I've had no subsequent correspondence nor has my credit card been charged albeit they can only have got my details from the rental company.

I'm led to believe it's not enforcable in the UK and as I'll not be driving the same car in Italy again they can whistle.

 

[219]

using the horn?


(tongue in cheek)

I thought using the horn was obligatory in Italy : as soon as a car in front stops , even for a red light BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAARE !