Advice on E Class Range - best engine size ??

[MBManInKen]

sticking to speeds in the 80-90 region.

That's km/h of course ??

 

[glojo]

A year or so ago I posted the official decibel readings for the 270/320. I think driving these diesels flat out would see you doing speeds that might be contraversial and the noise would be more of a concern for those behind

I said earlier how the fuel figures were not a significant issue for me.

I have now looked at the figures for the 2003/4 270 and 320CDI. I must emphasis these are for the estate car. Also don't forget auto transmission is standard on the 320, but a cost option on the 270. To save my typing fingers I am only listing automatic figures

220CDI city 28.8 extra urban 47.9 total 38.7
270CDI 26.9 47.1 37.2
320CDI 27.7 45.6 37.2

Now before we all scream these figures bear no relation to reality, then I accept that, but I would argue that the main thing is the similar figures between the biggest and smallest? I am being a critta by trying to suggest that you might want to review your options, but remember the 320 will have lots of standard features that are cost options throughout the rest of the lower range.

My figures were from the May 2003 price catalogue which is accurate up to about the summer of 2004.

Regards
John

 

[Dieselman]

John
That's often the case for diesl engines because the bigger engines still only have to produce the same amount of power and torque to make the same progress and as diesels don't regulate the mixture strength this can equate to running leaner due tot he engine being under less load.
Couple that with the higher gear ratios for the bigger engine and the sacraficial losses caused by the additional cylinders is negated.

Look at other cars with different engine sizes and you will see similar results.

Real world driving is then different because drivers take advantage of the additional torque.

 

[marcos]

Who's walking away? This is an interesting thread. I have no axe to grind and I simply spoke of what I found. If others have better information, I welcome it, and that's what boards like this are for, aren't they?

This is but one source of info, the Car-by-Car Breakdown section of http://www.honestjohn.co.uk.

"Rear seat not as wide as previous E class and centre rear seat not comfortable. High number of electrical and electronic faults reported across the range, spoiling what would otherwise be one of the World's best cars. Strange "burping" noise reported by RHD E240 owner from Sensotronic brake unit, apparently due to the length of a hose in LHD to RHD conversion. Reports of leaking high pressure diesel pumps on 320CDIs. Fluid leaks onto cooling system pipes which then also need to be replaced. Tinkling sound which rises with revs on 320CDI is from ceramic matrix of catalytic converter. Also starting problems with 320CDIs. Can suffer battery drain down when left in airport carparks unless upgraded battery pack specified."

Sorry about that, the bits about the pump leaking and going onto the cooling pipes and the catalytic convertor are down to me. I met Honest John one afternoon and had a few drinks with him. I had just had problems with the high pressure pump and the next day that bit appeared on his site

 

[glojo]

John
That's often the case for diesl engines because the bigger engines still only have to produce the same amount of power and torque to make the same progress and as diesels don't regulate the mixture strength this can equate to running leaner due tot he engine being under less load.
Couple that with the higher gear ratios for the bigger engine and the sacraficial losses caused by the additional cylinders is negated.

As usual we totally agree on these issues, plus it can be argued the bigger engine will have to do less work, providing the driver has not got lead in their right foot

It's a pity Marcos didn't tell 'Honest' John he owned a BMW

 

[BonzoDog]

I have the new 280 V6. It is the same engine as the 320 V6 but they fiddle about with the Doomaflodjits.
It is very smooth and quiet compared to the old 270/320. I average just under 35 mpg and get up to 43/44 on a journey. Town work is limited but it is of course much lower.
I have no problem with the amount of power, when I want it, it is there but my style aims to be smooth. Undoubtedly the 320 has more power but again when I have tried it, with my style of driving, I cannot notice the difference. If I were to buy another though I woudl go for the 320 because tehre is no difference in insurance, the economy is about the same and the extra power could be useful at some time.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

There was an E280 CDi in the latest Top Marques. IIRC 25,000 miles and £25,000 which strook me at the time as being reasonable.

 

[Rose Chap]

I had an E280 CDI courtesy car last week and it was very good. Quiet, reasonable poke, and sipped fuel at a miserly rate.

However, going back to the subject of this thread, the best engine size for the E Class is obviously the 6.3 litre petrol.

 

[hawk20]

A year or so ago I posted the official decibel readings for the 270/320.
Regards
John

Wish you could do that again John. So many impressions without facts creep into these threads.

My memory is that the 270 is hardly different from the 320 on noise levels.
Second, I vaguely remember reviews saying the new 320 is about the same noise level as the beautiful straight six that preceded it (and which is in my S320cdi). In Germany it was nicknamed the 'silky smooth six'. But it would not fit the ML (the 5 cylinder 270 would) so they wanted a V6 for compactness.

What Car and most motoring mags recommended the 270cdi as best all rounder (value economy etc). I had one and found it fine. Good car and excellent economy (over 40 on a run was easy). But money no object the 320 is a real honey -what Clarkson described as "all the engine you'll ever need".

 

[glojo]

Wish you could do that again John. So many impressions without facts creep into these threads."

I found this which was answering a question regarding petrol vs diesel, but am having problems finding my literature on the 270 It was such a long time ago, the chances are my 'cleaner' has put it beyond reach. Don't forget these readings are for the E-class estate (S211)

Regards,
John

 

[DieselE]

Wish you could do that again John. So many impressions without facts creep into these threads.

My memory is that the 270 is hardly different from the 320 on noise levels.
Second, I vaguely remember reviews saying the new 320 is about the same noise level as the beautiful straight six that preceded it (and which is in my S320cdi). In Germany it was nicknamed the 'silky smooth six'. But it would not fit the ML (the 5 cylinder 270 would) so they wanted a V6 for compactness.

What Car and most motoring mags recommended the 270cdi as best all rounder (value economy etc). I had one and found it fine. Good car and excellent economy (over 40 on a run was easy). But money no object the 320 is a real honey -what Clarkson described as "all the engine you'll ever need".

I agree it is easy to be subjective without facts. Having ridden in my friend's CLS320CDI, the engine is noticably quieter around town than the straight six I have in my E320CDI (which in every other respect I still think is fabulous). This impression has been confirmed by listening to one or two of the latest S320CDI. It would be interesting to have a scientific comparison.

 

[glojo]

I agree it is easy to be subjective without facts. Having ridden in my friend's CLS320CDI, the engine is noticably quieter around town than the straight six I have in my E320CDI (which in every other respect I still think is fabulous). This impression has been confirmed by listening to one or two of the latest S320CDI. It would be interesting to have a scientific comparison.

Plus you might want to think about sound insulatiion, if the insulation values are different is it a fair comparison? (question, NOT statement)

Regards
John

 

[Brian WH]

Plus you might want to think about sound insulatiion, if the insulation values are different is it a fair comparison? (question, NOT statement)

Regards
John

I don't know about DieselE and his friends CLS, but mine is also quieter than my previous W211 320CDI, and it is the engine not the insulation.

 

[glojo]

I don't know about DieselE and his friends CLS, but mine is also quieter than my previous W211 320CDI, and it is the engine not the insulation.

I am NOT saying one is quieter than the other but as has already been excellently stated these statements are just personal opinions. To concur with your opinion I would point out that the six cylinders of the straight six are bigger than the smaller V engine so the bang might be louder on the older but bigger engine?

Is a straight six a smoother running engine when compared to a similar sized V6? Pity we cannot put a machine under the bonnet to measure the noise then we would have a scientific answer. How I wish we could put the excellent straight six into the newer vehicles. I am a fan of this excellent configuration which has stood the test of time; is it correct to say that Mercedes only stopped using this in-line engine because of size limitations, plus possibly the new safety legislation?

Did either the CLS or the NEW shaped S-class EVER have the older in-line engine?

John

 

[evdok]

E320 CDI Owner

Hi,

I own a Dec 03 E320 cdi and must say its great, plenty of grunt, economy is amazing for the weight of the car (35mpg short trips....47mpg back from Mercedes world which was about 125miles) nice looks, plenty of gizmo's, loads of space, the thing that puts a smile on my face is when I'm in 4th at 75mph and about to overtake, the grunt it produces and the time it gets to 120mph is great, very little turbo lag as well

 

[Brian WH]

I am NOT saying one is quieter than the other but as has already been excellently stated these statements are just personal opinions. To concur with your opinion I would point out that the six cylinders of the straight six are bigger than the smaller V engine so the bang might be louder on the older but bigger engine?

Is a straight six a smoother running engine when compared to a similar sized V6? Pity we cannot put a machine under the bonnet to measure the noise then we would have a scientific answer. How I wish we could put the excellent straight six into the newer vehicles. I am a fan of this excellent configuration which has stood the test of time; is it correct to say that Mercedes only stopped using this in-line engine because of size limitations, plus possibly the new safety legislation?

Did either the CLS or the NEW shaped S-class EVER have the older in-line engine?

John

The CLS could not fit the straight 6 engine into the engine compartment, the same problem they had with the W211 when it was first designed. I had to wait six months for my W211 E 320CDI in 2003 because they hadn't solved that one. The new V engine is quieter because of it's design and also conforms to the latest EU regulations.

 

[hawk20]

The CLS could not fit the straight 6 engine into the engine compartment, the same problem they had with the W211 when it was first designed. I had to wait six months for my W211 E 320CDI in 2003 because they hadn't solved that one. The new V engine is quieter because of it's design and also conforms to the latest EU regulations.

In answer to GLOJO the new S class came out in , I think, February 2006 and had the new V6 320cdi straight away. I have one of the last 220 series S320cdi's with the 'old' straight six.

In answer to Brian WH the 'old' 320cdi meets the latest Euro regs too. Mine is Eu4 with particulate filters and needs low ash engine oil.

Which is quieter? We need someone to dig out road test figures for the facelifted S class up to 2005 and compare with road test figures for the 221 series. I think, by ear, that the difference is small. But some science would be nice.

 

[glojo]

In answer to GLOJO the new S class came out in , I think, February 2006 and had the new V6 320cdi straight away. I have one of the last 220 series S320cdi's with the 'old' straight six.

Like I suggested it's all to do with size I am NOT suggesting one engine is quieter than the other but what new design technology is there on the new V6?

Can someone please tell us if the new BMW big diesels are still in-line or have they gone down the route of the V design?

I'm sure I have read somewhere that the in-line six is a smoother running configuration?

Dieselman, your my guru on these issues

Regards
John

 

[GrahamC230K]

Dieselman, your my guru on these issues

Regards
John

You're. Sorry I hate that one.

 

[glojo]

You're. Sorry I hate that one.

Sekundry Modun basic edukayshun for yuh.

John your a pour spellah