ADVICE PLEASE - NOTICE OF INTENDED PROSECUTION - M1 SOUTHBOUND MIDNIGHT - VARIABLE SPEED LIMIT

[clk320x]

I know exactly how you feel, it’s the same on the m25 near cobham services, 40mph signs on the side of the road but overhead it says 40/50/60/NSL, so confusing and everyone else just seems to be doing 70 anyway!

70 on the m25?! How is this possible

 

[E53AMG]

64mph allegedly

Wow if that is correct then your Speedo should have been registering around 70mph in what was to you a 60mph zone...?

The car that overtook you must have been exceeding 80mph on approach! When a car overtakes at that rate it can make you think "have I missed a de-restriction sign"...

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[rockits]

Wow if that is correct then your Speedo should have been registering around 70mph in what was to you a 60mph zone...?

The car that overtook you must have been exceeding 80mph on approach! When a car overtakes at that rate it can make you think "have I missed a de-restriction sign"...

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Funnily enough the Merc speed is really accurate. In comparison to Waze GPS speeds it is generally within 1-3mph at motorway speeds. The Hilux by comparison is up-to 5-8mph at motorway speeds.

I would never go above 65mph at any point in a 60mph area so my 64mph is probably right for me driving through thinking it was a 60mph area.

 

[rockits]

Not sure these should be called 'SMART' motorways really as they ain't very bl00dy clever.

However when you stop & think it is a perfect phrase. They are very smart....much smarter than me that's for sure! Sneaky or sly motorways might be a little more accurate though

Maybe it is a back room known acronym that we aren't partial to.

Sneaky
Motorway
Always
Rinsing
Tw4ts

Anyone come up with a good/better acronym for SMART?

 

[neilrr]

What did Pepipoo say?

 

[st13phil]

Regardless of any perceived injustice, I'm afraid you were caught bang to rights. Personally I think the whole camera enforcement regime stinks, but its part of British life so we have to live with it.

64mph allegedly

You are absolutely on the top end of the threshold for a course at that speed (a course may be offered for speeds in the range of limit +10% +2mph to limit +10% +9mph) so hopefully you'll be offered one and will escape the points.

Just make sure you return the S172/NIP form fully completed and within the time limit.

 

[neilrr]

Regardless of any perceived injustice, I'm afraid you were caught bang to rights.

That has not been established at all & remains TBD surely.

Personally I think the whole camera enforcement regime stinks, but its part of British life so we have to live with it.

Would you pay any CCTV Private Parking Company PCN without dispute based on the same attitude? I wouldn't.

 

[st13phil]

That has not been established at all & remains TBD surely.

The OP says that he was travelling at 60+ mph; the limit sign on the gantry said 50mph. Looks like a slam dunk to me (unfortunately). If it had been temporary signage then there may have been an argument over adequacy of the signage, or validity of the TRO, but with a fixed gantry sign and camera the chances of a successful challenge are vanishingly small. The cost of challenging in Court will also be significant, with the very real prospect of an earnings-related fine when the challenge fails.

Would you pay any CCTV Private Parking Company PCN without dispute based on the same attitude? I wouldn't.

No I wouldn't. But the downside risk of challenging a PPC invoice is pretty low.

 

[markjay]

As far as I understand, the OP is not disputing the offence itself... his point is that the frequently-changing speed limits, coupled with the lightning conditions on the road at the time, and the fact the the camera and the speed limit sign were located on the same gantry, meant that even a competent driver could not have reasonably been expected to manage avoiding making a mistake.

 

[clk320x]

I’d love to see anyone justify how this camera enforcement approach improves safety on that stretch of road.

It would make more sense to enforce average speed checks in that stretch of roadworks, at least then it stops people accelerating hard and slamming on the brakes.

It’s just a cash cow.

 

[Haven't a clue!]

If you've been offered an awareness course and no fine/points I'd take that and as John says just take it on the chin.

Ditto, you were exceeding the limit so unless you have other extenuating circumstances they will let you take it to court, win and hit you with points and larger fine.
Yep, just done a SAC myself as lesser of evils

 

[st13phil]

...meant that even a competent driver could not have reasonably been expected to manage avoiding making a mistake.

Yet the other car that came barrelling past him did see the limit sign and braked accordingly.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not unsympathetic, but the chances of successfully challenging the ticket are vanishingly small and carry a very large downside risk. The system is set up so as to make challenging it very difficult and very expensive, something that offends my sense of natural justice, but it’s important to recognise a fight that you’re unlikely to win.




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[markjay]

I think that the fact that the sign and camera were on the same gantry might have been a valid reason for asking the police to exercise their discretion on this occasion (I have done so successfully with parking tickets etc in the past, though I haven't tried it with rolling traffic offences) - had the OP been clocked at 60mph and not 64mph. 64mph may be below the guidelines for prosecution, but it's still an offence.

With regards driving conditions... if the OP could obtain the statistics regarding how many drivers were fined by this camera during the roadworks period then perhaps there may be a case there for suggesting that the poor road conditions meant it was unreasonable to expect drivers to manage the varying speed limits. But I don't know if it's possible to obtain this data under the Freedom of Information act, or if it is something the court would be willing to consider.

Disclaimer: this is just my 'bloke down the pub' view... so stick with the advice on pepipoo

 

[markjay]

Also: I can't find the old thread right now... but to the person who asked a couple of years ago if gantry speed cameras are automatically adjusted according to the variable speed limit in force at the time: the answer is, apparently, Yes... (well, at least on *some* motorways).

 

[MD5]

This way you do not get any penalty points, and your insurance premiums shouldn’t be affected

Unless you're with Admiral!

 

[liamt]

Unless you're with Admiral!

Yep Admiral and some other Insurance companies make you declare speed awareness courses the barstewards!

 

[PenelopePitstop]

I think that the fact that the sign and camera were on the same gantry might have been a valid reason for asking the police to exercise their discretion on this occasion

Speed limit on gantry is visible from distance, so there should be enough time and space to brake. Of course, braking from 70 to 40 could be a bit harsh but in this case there was change from 60 to 50 and I didn't see any distracting or flashing lights on a video. Other driver was able to brake and it looks like he/she was going faster.

So, live and learn (and pay).

 

[markjay]

Just drove from London to Northampton on the M1.

It's a myriad of changing speed restrictions... the rapid succession of variable speed limit due to congestion and apeed restrictions due roadworks if bewildering and very difficult to follow.

At one point, after driving several miles at 60 (congestion), the gantry fonally showed NSL, so everyone started speeding up... 5 seconds later there was a 50 sign (roadworks)...

Anyway, I am on the way back now, sat at Newport Pagnell motorway services, because the M1 south is at standstill due to a crash, waiting for it clear-up so I can continue my journey home.

 

[clk320x]

Just drove from London to Northampton on the M1.

It's a myriad of changing speed restrictions... the rapid succession of variable speed limit due to congestion and apeed restrictions due roadworks if bewildering and very difficult to follow.

At one point, after driving several miles at 60 (congestion), the gantry fonally showed NSL, so everyone started speeding up... 5 seconds later there was a 50 sign (roadworks)...

Anyway, I am on the way back now, sat at Newport Pagnell motorway services, because the M1 south is at standstill due to a crash, waiting for it clear-up so I can continue my journey home.

MJ, it has been a massive headache. I drove back at 3am yesterday and had the same issue with the signage. I believe there is an average speed check zone in force, but it seems to come and go every other day...

Yesterday 4 junctions were closed on my way down at 1am, meant I had to redirect around the maze that we know as Milton Keynes

Have a safe drive home.

 

[Deleted member 131833]

Backs up my attitude to speed cameras, drive at the speed limit using cruise control.

It takes a lot of stress out of driving, you do not need to constantly watch for cameras or police cars.


Easy to say when you are retired and time does not matter I know.

Fitted camera to car so have an argument with intended prosecution if it should arise